WTF is Up With Adwords

JoshN · Dec 20, 2012

I'm managing a simple adwords campaign and bidding on a keyword for a client.
mortgage rates
...among others

So I look it up in the keyword tool and broad/phrase/exact are all around $5 estimated CPC.
It took me bidding $10+ just to get on the first page when I actually put the campaign together, and now clicks cost $15.. I needed to bid 2-5x the keyword tool's estimate to even show up mid page for any of the keywords we bid on. The client is like WTF.

and I'm not sure I have an answer for them. Any insight you guys can provide. I know our QS is low because we're new, but the site is about mortgage rates, so it should be relevant.

wowhaxor · Dec 20, 2012

Thats a crazy term, you don't want to use it. Think long tails and do your research my man I don't ever pick terms like that you're always paying a ton per click and you'll probably never make a positive ROI because your competition's ROI is going to be what they make over 20 years if the lead finances a mortgage with them, so they can blow a couple grand before they land 1 single lead.

timmy79 · Dec 20, 2012

CPC can be affected by your CTR result and optimization of your landing page. Also, companies that have their campaigns optimized a while ago will cost you more to get pass them and for that they charge you more.

JoshN · Dec 20, 2012

wowhaxor said:
Thats a crazy term, you don't want to use it. Think long tails and do your research my man I don't ever pick terms like that you're always paying a ton per click and you'll probably never make a positive ROI because your competition's ROI is going to be what they make over 20 years if the lead finances a mortgage with them, so they can blow a couple grand before they land 1 single lead.

At $15 a click you're right it is crazy, I thought for $4.50 - $5 it might be worth trying. They are only focused on a small geographic region.. so if I did long tails they would never get any clicks (outide of thousands of long tails and that was outside of the scope of this project) I put together a simple adwords campaign for them for $200, so I chose like 20 keywords and I needed some keywords with some heavy traffic to get them any clicks.

JoshN · Dec 20, 2012

Heavin forbid... I almost never suggest this.. I think I might advise them to advertise on social media.

Thats crazy.... but at least their CPC will be reasonable

Endire · Dec 20, 2012

Josh,

I know your CPC sounds crazy but in actuality mortgage and lending related terms are some of the highest cost for CPC advertising on platforms like Adwords. Be careful using the keyword tool as the CPC estimate they give you can be misleading.

As mentioned by wowhaxor, I would say focus on some longtail keywords that are less competitive if your client does not want to spend that kind of money on PPC.

Check out this infographic on the most expensive keywords. Insurance related terms are number one and loans and mortgages take the number 2 and 3 spots. You may have to manage your client's expectations with how much they are required to spend in this arena in order to remain competitive.

http://www.wordstream.com/articles/most-expensive-keywords

Hope that helps you,

Shawn

JoshN · Dec 21, 2012

I hear you on the long tails but based on how narrow their geographic scope is I don't think they would get any traffic.

I am just wondering if anyone else has seen the keyword tool be so far wrong. Its unbelievable. I've seen it be off by 50% before and accepted it but 3x is not acceptable. Thats what I can't get over. I knew this industry was expensive and thats why I cherry picked around the 15-20 dollar keywords for the ones that I thought were semi relevant in the $5 range.

I know clickthroughs will be low, but it'll probably cost them $1.75 per click from facebook and they can keep from targeting tweens, and Linkedin will cost them about $2.25 per click. I think they'll get more clicks and for less money. I may also talk to them about an email marketing campaign.

TheContentAuthority said:
Josh,

I know your CPC sounds crazy but in actuality mortgage and lending related terms are some of the highest cost for CPC advertising on platforms like Adwords. Be careful using the keyword tool as the CPC estimate they give you can be misleading.

As mentioned by wowhaxor, I would say focus on some longtail keywords that are less competitive if your client does not want to spend that kind of money on PPC.

Check out this infographic on the most expensive keywords. Insurance related terms are number one and loans and mortgages take the number 2 and 3 spots. You may have to manage your client's expectations with how much they are required to spend in this arena in order to remain competitive.

http://www.wordstream.com/articles/most-expensive-keywords

Hope that helps you,

Shawn

redrubies · Dec 21, 2012

JoshN said:
Heavin forbid... I almost never suggest this.. I think I might advise them to advertise on social media.

Thats crazy.... but at least their CPC will be reasonable

Actually I find that facebook ads convert better than google ads. Bing ads are great though. I like the clientele that bing brings in. I don't do google ads any more for two reasons. They don't convert well and I don't want to give google my money.

netmoney1 · Dec 21, 2012

Look into Zillow...they offer targeted...

I know several people in mortgage...from small operations to ones closing millions of dollars weekly.

And they have all said the same thing...no more google (too many "info hunters" who click away on any ad they see...not enough "buyers")

They all do Zillow and direct mail. Those 2 options are producing across the board.

Maybe you can help them get into those areas and charge a management fee. This way they actually see a return...and continue to use your help.

redrubies · Dec 21, 2012

netmoney1 said:
And they have all said the same thing...no more google (too many "info hunters" who click away on any ad they see...not enough "buyers").

It could also be the competition clicking on the ads. Happens a lot in retail. I have heard people say they do it.

JoshN · Dec 21, 2012

Yes, this is my goal with them. I'm helping them out right now because they're a startup, but I'm hoping to manage their online advertising for a monthly fee.

I've advised them that we may want to look at social as well, and I let them know I've also got a database of 50k contacts with emails in their geographic area so I'll see what their interest is there too.

netmoney1 said:
Look into Zillow...they offer targeted...

I know several people in mortgage...from small operations to ones closing millions of dollars weekly.

And they have all said the same thing...no more google (too many "info hunters" who click away on any ad they see...not enough "buyers")

They all do Zillow and direct mail. Those 2 options are producing across the board.

Maybe you can help them get into those areas and charge a management fee. This way they actually see a return...and continue to use your help.

MDirect · Dec 21, 2012

Estimates rarely match up with what you can actually expect to pay - although they do SOMETIMES give you a good idea.

Don't bid on obvious popular terms. The big boys with multi-million dollar budgets won't let you anywhere near the top.

Think of variations, and keywords people will type that might not be too obvious.

That is where the money is.

Lastly - you have to bid high to get a good ad position. Once you have a good ad position + high CTR (effective ad). You can start to lower your bid, and your average CPC will come down.

FreddyD · Dec 22, 2012

Go longtail but more relevant. They might get less visitors, but the visitors will be more geared to their product.

WTF is Up With Adwords

JoshN

Junior Member

wowhaxor

Elite Member

timmy79

Regular Member

JoshN

Junior Member

JoshN

Junior Member

Endire

Elite Member

JoshN

Junior Member

redrubies

Supreme Member

netmoney1

Elite Member

redrubies

Supreme Member

JoshN

Junior Member

MDirect

Junior Member

FreddyD

Newbie

Main Menu

Marketplace

Making Money

BlackHat World