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Who's the real blackhatter?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Black Hat Seo, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. Black Hat Seo

    Black Hat Seo BANNED BANNED

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    I've seen quite a few threads popping up the last few months referencing that the CPA networks are such victims, and only shave because of all the awful fraud.

    Well I can tell you that at best, less than 7% of CPA leads are fraud, and I think thats probably quite generous based on my testing and being on the inside of a few networks.

    Also, that 7% is not even distribution. Offers like email submits take up far more of that percentage than most other types of offers.

    Let's just give the networks the benefit of the doubt here and say that on average, they are getting 7% fraud leads.

    OK

    Well then why is it that on average I lose almost 15% of the legitimate leads I send through?

    That's more than double the percentage of fraud in the industry. This loss has been pretty constant for years, and I'm talking when fraud was probably 2% at best. Sites like blackhatworld weren't monsters then, nor did they even exist, and this type of info was not readily available except to the slickest of us.

    I don't think the networks would be very happy if I did independent tests on them in front of the entire world and showed how many leads really fall through the cracks :)

    So we are all a little dirty, hey that's the game, but I thought this thread important because people are always coming to me about the state of CPA and is it dying out because of all the fraud.

    CPA has never been stronger, it aint going anywhere, and I bet you never knew how little fraud is in the grand scheme of CPA.

    Also worth honorable mention is I used only "FRAUD" that does not mean blackhat. Blackhat leads actually have value, and generate millions in revenue for these companies, they just arent high quality.

    Shaving has been going on since there were payments to be shaved, long before the internet, long before CPA.

    It wasn't blackhat affiliates that started this game, it was merchants. Kicking a few under the rug is one of the oldest business practices in the book.

    So next time someone tries to be the champion of the networks, calling you criminals, drop a little fact on them and let them know who's really getting fucked at the end of the day. :)
     
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  2. cparainmaker

    cparainmaker BANNED BANNED

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    Yeah well it's networks stealing campaigns and being douche bags, merchants shaving, and in the end the networks shouldn't care. A good lead to most insurance or debt companies is worth $50-100, while they're being streeted to affiliates for $10-15, obviously there is a bunch of float there which allows for a whole lot of black hat activity from publishers to networks.
     
  3. Arthas

    Arthas BANNED BANNED

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    yeah. a lot of networks (probably most) are black hat themselves for this very reason. Thats why I don't feel bad about my BH activity. In fact, I have had AMs tell me they know what I'm doing and want me to continue. Even when it was somewhat questionable leads. Black Hat evens the playing field if you use it. You would be a fool to not.
     
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  4. sikx

    sikx Registered Member

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    It's not the networks that are shaving, it's the advertisers who don't want to pay so much money.
     
  5. Black Hat Seo

    Black Hat Seo BANNED BANNED

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    You can thank hundreds of thousands of white hat affiliates who update their little blogs and watch their PPC campaigns like hawks and live in a fog everyday not knowing the robbery taking place.

    Do you think the networks couldn't give you 100% accurate tracking? Please. There are dozens of independent issues, intentional, and unintentional that cause a lead to not be reported. All of them are easily fixable.

    I could wipe out fraud leads and blackhat CPA in a day if I wanted to. I could build a network that would make blackhat so unprofitable, no one would even attempt sending me a bullshit lead.

    But blackhat is big business, no one wants it going anywhere, the model is too profitable as is. The only fraud measures taken are to kill off the useless overseas morons who deliver no value.
     
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  6. blackxxxer

    blackxxxer BANNED BANNED

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    Arthas is right, I have a couple of Affiliate Managers who I know they've gotta know what I'm doing? I mean sometimes I get like 45% conversion rates on some offers & my affiliate managers telling me to keep going,Then if i can an offer pulled they tell me to put another back up. Some of these networks honestly know what some of us are doing, honestly I don't think they care. As long as the advertiser don't bitch at them & pay them at the end of the month we get paid. Blackhat leads make up only a small % of the CPA leads generated so the advertiser aren't really loosing much in the long run.:cool: