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What is Blackhat SEO?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by jb2008, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. jb2008

    jb2008 Senior Member

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    I have been thinking about this for a while.

    Of course, I've done my fair share of blog comment spam. Mostly for crappy adsense sites that I don't care that much about.

    But for my main sites I don't use automated tools to submit anything. Of course I harvest 24/7, as anyone should, but that's just scraping the internet. I'm not spamming anyone. I don't use Xrumer. I don't spam profile links, I tried Sick Submitter but hot daaaym is it slow. I don't recommend it. Profile links are an absolute BITCH to get indexed. (I developed a system to do that but it takes a LOT of resources such that it's not really worth it anymore. G is really getting a lot more sophisticated in terms of what it indexes.) So generally I just stick to the high PR links as recommended by 'white hat' SEO practitioners. I get these links by submitting relevant posts manually, but of course harvested with Scrapebox and the wonderful Hrefer. Is that blackhat?

    I don't understand why this difference is there between Black Hat and White Hat SEO. Of course blatant Xrumer blasting all day is black hat because it is against Google TOS. But doesn't G also NOT want any active link building on the part of the webmaster. Maybe the webmaster would write a few articles which pass an editorial team like ezine, or submit to a heavily edited directory e.g. yahoo, for business promotion but not necessarily the link. G wants webmasters to say 'hey, this is a useful site for X, I want my readers to see it', and then link to it using anchor text X. The only SEO you should do as stated by Matt Cutts is general on page, tags etc canonical URLs, etc. Active link building yourself whether automated or manual e.g. mass directory submission, article submission, social bookmarking for the SAKE of the link itself rather than OTHER people talking about it, or specifically WEBMASTERS linking to it NATURALLY, this is all against what Google wants and hence should be regarded as Blackhat too. All this high and mighty WhiteHat = good and Blackhat = bad guys is all bullshit. Google is living in an ideal world that doesn't exist. Say you make a new website and it is awesome. But no one knows about it. How are you gonna promote it? You have to promote it somehow. Therefore you build links so people can find it. That is technically against Google's wishes, people are somehow supposed to magically come across your website, the exact URL of this new non-indexed site has come to them in their dreams, they type it in and they link to it on their site because they think it's an awesome site. Yeah that's cool but 99.999% of the time that will never happen. Yeah there are viral successes but 99.999% of people are going to have to shout to get heard. You have the right to promote your business, Google is the biggest search engine on this earth therefore you will have to do all you can to get found in it. That means actively building links. I argue that whatever techniques you use, so called 'whitehat' or 'blackhat', ranging from simple manual directory submission all the way to complex XRUMER fuelled link pyramids, networks, link pushes and so forth, they are all against Google TOS when you actively go on a mass link building spree. Manual or automatic doesn't make a different. So those so called 'white hat' guys can sit on their ivory towers, their shit stinks just as bad as ours, we are all violators of the idealistic, unrealistic, and frankly super gay policies of Google and that annoying loser Matt Cunts.

    Just had to get that off my chest.
     
  2. oinky222

    oinky222 Regular Member

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    Black Hat SEO is anything in which you build your own links. "White Hat Link Building" is an oxymoron because linkbuilding by definition is Black Hat. The only thing that counts as "White Hat SEO" is creating really good content and hoping that other people will link to it without your knowledge. While "White Hat SEO" does sound good in theory, the reality is that if you want your sites to rank, Black Hat SEO is necessary
     
  3. Monrox

    Monrox Power Member

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    Here's the deal with several sentences. Analyzing content relevancy can be done in 2 ways: by humans and by machines. Humans are expensive, machines are dumb.

    Some years ago some guys came up with an idea. Use hyperlink flow to automate content analysis. Simply let machines gather what humans are interlinking and put the winners on top. That's Google. They don't want you to mess with this simple yet genious idea so they go on and on about some nonsense like user experience etc.

    What they want is for you to shut up and continue linking to relevant content so they can keep feeding off your efforts without giving you anything.

    Do you really believe that links would play any role at all if there was a cheap way to actually teach a computer recognize relevancy (a rhetorical question)? A great example is wikipedia. There are always better sites on a given topic as wikipedia is mostly rephrasing other sources. However there is no cheap way to identify those other websites so G usually takes the safest way by slapping a wiki link on the top spots.

    Which brings us to the meat of my post: if you want to be the next Google, figure out a better but still cheap way to teach a computer recognize relevancy. It will be something simple, as simple as counting backlinks. But the simplest things are the hardest to spot and between discoveries companies have time to grow into massive entities.

    By relying on backlinks G actually unleashed linking spam. It's their ugly child but of course they can't let themselves get caught as the reason for this mess.
     
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  4. jb2008

    jb2008 Senior Member

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    Exactly bro, that's precisely what I'm saying. You got it :)

    So why are all these companies allowed to exist, charging shitloads of money, claiming to be 'white hat' when they are just black hat like the rest of us.

    I think the difference is, the RESULT of their link building efforts LOOKS white hat, i.e. like other webmasters linked to it without their knowledge, while Black Hat is just blatant like blog comment spam. Both are black hat, but one could appear to have been result of white hat practises (i.e. simply making great content).

    It really angers me, however, that so many high flying companies charge ridiculous amounts of money for what is no more than glorified (and often fucking amateur) Black Hat SEO. Regrettably, when I began IM I hired indian companies who claimed to do white hat SEO, e.g. directory submissions, social bookmarking, but it was mixed with blog comments. Even they didn't bother to fully disguise their actions as being black hat.

    I can see why we have two forums for Black/White SEO but there really should simply be an SEO forum and leave it at that. Any linkbuilding is Black Hat, the difference between the Black/White camps being that Black doesn't necessarily bother to disguise its actions as Black Hat, e.g. forum profile links.

    But then again, if you simply link forum profile / guestbook / blog comment spam to web 2.0s or self-hosted parasites, which appear to be separate sites and thus created by a webmaster other than yourself on a topic similar to that of your money site, and this (fictitious) webmaster just 'happens' to link to your money site, then = White Hat SEO. I think people in the White Hat camp (which shouldn't even exist tbh) are stupid to deprive themselves of automated tools which can help their efforts. If you want to disguise your links and have (apparently) White Hat links pointing to your money site, then you can do that, perfectly fine and still utilize Scrapebox/Xrumer to your full advantage.


    In the past I had given thousands of dollars to indian SEO companies which I now see were simply mechanical directory/social bookmarking/article/blog comment submissions, and they claimed to be white hat just because it is manual. Manual does NOT equal white hat and vice versa. In fact manual often equals plain stupid. Their whole livelihood depends on breaking Google's TOS yet claiming to follow strict guidelines. There is the concept of linkbaiting but even that, indirectly, is building links. You're putting content up not because you want to, but for the sole purpose of building links. In the future I would like to start my own SEO company after I've got a firm grip of Xrumer and can use it daily, but if you mention you use tools like that no client would trust you.
     
  5. Debian

    Debian Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Damned, that was spot on. I never quite looked at it that way. Places like dp are filled with Indians still claiming white hat and actually doing black hat and raping the customers wallet at the same time.
     
  6. cyberzilla

    cyberzilla Elite Member Premium Member

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    No offense mate, but you should stop pointing to a particular country because scammers are from all over the world.:)
     
  7. jb2008

    jb2008 Senior Member

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    Lol, cyberzilla, usually I would say yeah, we shouldn't be prejudiced; but seriously, it really is indians mostly who do this shit. I have no problems with cool people from whatever races but in general, it is the indians who claim whitehat but what they are really doing is very, very feeble blackhat. The customer thinks he is pleasing Google by being nice and whitehat while his wallet gets raped in the anus.

    But indians aside, this is not to detract from the main point of the thread which isn't to single out indians at all, it's more about white hat SEO not really existing at all.
     
  8. skrinkladoo

    skrinkladoo Newbie

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    thumbs up!