What do you include in monthly reports?

ThatSEO said:

Nah - we deal with budgets of 10k+ a month - full blown reports waste time. We have ranking and traffic reports and bullet points - and phone calls

The ‘report’ should have been set up and agreed before any client is ever taken on.

Long reports Never get read

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What do you mean the report should have been set up?

You mean to go over which keywords you're gonna hit? Or go over some plan with them?

And yeah, long reports don't get read. He previously worked with a shitty SEO company that would send 120 page reports. He didn't even read them. But I showed him why they were fucking him, and now he's probably untrusting and wants an in-depth report.

Stavro said:

An in-depth report will just give the client a template to follow on his own, or pass the job along to some relative.

Did your contract clarify the content/delivery of the report? Personally I go with a one-page PDF of the results, delivered via email along with the next invoice.

In this case I would go to the meeting, but I'd make it clear that this is a one-time courtesy, and remind him that he's paying for results, not trade secrets. You are an independent contractor, not his employee, so you are neither legally nor morally obligated to go running to his office every time he calls.

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This is my first client so my wording might have been foolish - I said I would give a monthly report with an overview of the work done for the month / next months plan, plus a spreadsheet of the KWs and ranking.


Your style in more in line with who I am. More than most responses in this thread. I'm not getting paid enough to spend my time just to go over there and make him feel secure.



Like I said, I've freelanced 4+ years and

cold + firm + focused on results = good clients that stay out of your business

being nice/extending courtesy = annoying, "hold my hand" behavior

9 times out of 10


If they see they can get extra attention from you, even as a courtesy, they will milk it. It's the same reason I don't discount anything --- people think they deserve the discount instead of seeing it as a courtesy.


I think I'm gonna go to the meeting but if I get the feeling that he's being rude or asking for too much then I'm just abandoning the account and starting on a better foot with my next client.


It happened with my previous business - if you don't set the boundaries ASAP then they try to milk you


Sorry if I sound negative or cynical but this is my experience - I don't like playing the whole "I'm your friend" customer service man - I'm more pragmatic


Or maybe I'm an asshole - who knows

I may have pre-sabotaged this client anyway because it was my first client and I over-promised and over hand-held ---

I probably came across really desperate. Also let him talk me down from $2k to $1k. So he already feels superior and all that.

That's why I don't really give a shit about losing him. I figure it's gonna happen anyway... either that or I'm gonna dump him cause he's gonna ask for too much

whiz said:

That's why I don't really give a shit about losing him. I figure it's gonna happen anyway... either that or I'm gonna dump him cause he's gonna ask for too much

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I understand your dilemma 100%. There are some people who're just stubborn like this particular client of yours.

That being said, you're losing much more than $1k a month if he leaves you. If you stick it out for a few more months with this guy and use some of the customer service ideas that NotAlanTuring brought up, you could flip him from a shit client to somebody who would recommend your service to other business owners. Business owners know business owners, and most of the time they're more than happy to suggest great services to their friends. Now these friends of this business owner, you could high ball them because you're already vouched by their dear friend.

Stick it out man, or dump this customer. The most important thing is to take some of these answers in this thread and form a new game plan of what to do with this client.

Best of luck whiz, it's great seeing your progress!

whiz said:

And yeah, long reports don't get read. He previously worked with a shitty SEO company that would send 120 page reports. He didn't even read them. But I showed him why they were fucking him, and now he's probably untrusting and wants an in-depth report.

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Unfortunately, in the offline world "SEO" is seen as the modern day "snake oil" purely because of these long reports. Even if a provider is legit, long explanations and extra proof doesn't make the service gain value, it's just viewed as incomprehensible gibberish.

My current report is just a one-page chart with the top 10 keywords, last month's ranking for each, this month's ranking, traffic, etc (nothing the client can't already see directly on Google Analytics). As long as you can prove results, you won't gain anything extra by showing how the proverbial sausage is made.

whiz said:

I think I'm gonna go to the meeting but if I get the feeling that he's being rude or asking for too much then I'm just abandoning the account and starting on a better foot with my next client.

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You are going into that meeting on a flawed foot

Try this

Month one is always

Research
Planning
Quick fix

So in a nut shell:

What’s wrong and what’s right - he’s paying you to know
What’s your plan of action - what are the competitors doing blah blah - show you know all of that
What quick fixes have you done? Goals, updated stuff, business listings, broken links

Show him a couple of examples and no more - tell him stuff takes time, don’t oversell

If you’ve seen any increase, take credit for it.

This is the key - give HIM jobs to do - nothing worse than a client twiddling their thumbs

Going in balls deep of ‘I’m not taking his crap’ will mess up your relationship.

Also - stop texting, he’s a client not a friend - emails or calls, done.

ThatSEO said:

You are going into that meeting on a flawed foot

Try this

Month one is always

Research
Planning
Quick fix

So in a nut shell:

What’s wrong and what’s right - he’s paying you to know
What’s your plan of action - what are the competitors doing blah blah - show you know all of that
What quick fixes have you done? Goals, updated stuff, business listings, broken links

Show him a couple of examples and no more - tell him stuff takes time, don’t oversell

If you’ve seen any increase, take credit for it.

This is the key - give HIM jobs to do - nothing worse than a client twiddling their thumbs

Going in balls deep of ‘I’m not taking his crap’ will mess up your relationship.

Also - stop texting, he’s a client not a friend - emails or calls, done.

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Thanks. This is a really helpful response.

I messed up with settings boundaries... this was my first client and I didn't even think he was going to sign with me. So I messed up on a lot of stuff.


I come from a background of freelance audio engineering so I was friends with a bunch of my clients (music artists). This was the type of vibe in the specific industry. So I got used to all the text stuff. That was the main form of communication.

But I'll have to adhere to business hours / emails / phonecalls from now on.

Stavro said:

Unfortunately, in the offline world "SEO" is seen as the modern day "snake oil" purely because of these long reports. Even if a provider is legit, long explanations and extra proof doesn't make the service gain value, it's just viewed as incomprehensible gibberish.

My current report is just a one-page chart with the top 10 keywords, last month's ranking for each, this month's ranking, traffic, etc (nothing the client can't already see directly on Google Analytics). As long as you can prove results, you won't gain anything extra by showing how the proverbial sausage is made.

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Yeah, this is how I want stuff to be. I just messed up with this first client. I went in with a lack of knowledge and experience and messed up on setting the proper tone for the relationship.

But I'm now working on a comprehensive plan to turn this around... and worse comes to worst, I'll end the account.



My comprehensive audit + plan will help me out ALOT for my next client. This first month has taught me a bunch of stuff

@whiz How did the meeting went?

NotAllenTuring said:

@whiz How did the meeting went?

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Having the meeting in like 8 hours.

I created a presentation on the work I did, ranking increases, and the benefits.

I also have an insane site overhaul / SEO plan I will be executing ASAP. Can't wait to show him. I pretty much buried head in my laptop every free second of everyday for the past week - I have an understanding of the niche and local market more than any other SEO in town. I know this because if they had my knowledge, they would be capitalizing. I really think I can get him #1 on almost every worthwhile term. And #1 on all the worthwhile directories, including Yelp.

I also have a bunch of questions ready for him, many of which I need for this site overhaul. I will also ask him about his goals to learn about him a bit more, as you stated above.




The site was made with some bullshit VamTam plugin. I don't like it. I can get away with using it to redesign the site but I don't know if I even want to.

I don't really have to redesign the site, but I want to absolutely dominate and get #1 on like every KW so I can use this as the ultimate case study. So I think I'll just do it.

I kinda want to redesign the site from the ground up using OceanWP + Elementor. I have designed a few sites with this combo for my own amusement, but never a live one. This would be great for my portfolio and I think I can increase conversions while I'm at it.

I just have to do alot of research and find out how the site redesign process works - I don't want to affect any current rankings. I won't really be changing URLs, but I will be changing the content within.




I really kinda neglected him the first month because I didn't know as much about SEO as I thought I did. So I was a bitch when I made this post

"Waaaah why can't I just sit around and collect money for doing nothing? Why's he need proof waaaah"

I was just mad because I knew I didn't do shit, and felt insecure like he was "exposing me".




So I'm gonna blast his ass with the master plan and see what he thinks. I don't give a fuck what happens. I learned so much and I now have an indepth understanding and a system to use with future clients.




Plus I learned some great lead gen / prospecting skills recently that I can't wait to put to test.




So hopefully he cuts the check tomorrow and I can take a few days to run my lead gen campaign.

whiz said:

So I just finished my first month with my first client.

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whiz said:

Like I said, I've freelanced for years... the best clients are the ones that just trust me and pay me.

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First client but you are already 4 years freelancing and have more clients?

whiz said:

I don't believe there is any shortage of clients for me, and that's why I don't care about dumping him. I hate when people ask for my time unnecessarily.

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Why don't you dump him if this would be true?

whiz said:

It's simply because he can't trust me and wants to know my process (which he will then criticize).

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This is totally BS if you ask me. Someone trust you for some work and with his money: YOU want his money so YOU need to provide value. Don't go complain about that it is time wasting or something. You want to make money as a freelancer, act like it and don't come up with all those excuses. Be grateful you have clients, lots of others struggle to get these.

If a client want to meet you can either do two things; Be a man and go to this meeting. Put a time limit on it like said before, discuss the necessary things and instead of focus on which work is done focus on the value you've delivered.

Or you can create a fancy digital report and deliver that to him by email. If the client wants to talk tell them you have 15/30 minutes for a call (via Skype).

And that you just think he is wasting your time, wants to criticize you: I read in your messages that's it based on your own insecurity. Are you afraid you didn't have delivered enough value so he will be critical? If not you just have assumptions.

Edit: I just saw your latest post so this isn't specifically for you anymore. You did the right thing Whiz. Now this is for everyone who is in this situation like you.

@whiz That is some great news! Your enthusiasm is infectious.

One tip for the redesign: before you start, make a complete backup and always develop local.

Branding/Brand awareness: does your client have a style guide which you can build on?
My experience is that a lot of SMB’s - Mom and Pop stores, let’s keep it real - don’t have a style guide.
If this is the case, start with one. Doesn’t have to be complicated and could be as simple as including the mission statement, key messaging, brand color(s), typography, and the logo.

And I’m going out on a limb here, but when it comes to mission statements, SWAT, and the competitive field, I’d like to approach it with the help of the Five paragagraph field order - In my opinion online, and online positioning, is a form of nonlinear warfare. Dramatic, ikr - and the following monograph gives you an idea about what to look for, and think about, in order to form a consistent and brief communication strategy: http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/utils/getdo...013coll3/id/1980/filename/1981.pdf/mapsto/pdf

Another great resource is this very simple post by David Shore, which also outlines 5 key principles to look out for: https://www.extension.harvard.edu/p...ve-keys-driving-successful-change-initiatives

When you use these methods and always keep them in the back of your mind, I’m convinced that you’re able to approach your clients business, and the subsequent outcome, not only the actual redesign, in a completely different light.

Let me know what you think, and do let me know what your final outcome is.

Good luck, and knock it out of the park!

Thanks @NotAllenTuring for the links - the military one looks interesting and I'll check it out.

I met up with him and and he was saying he hasn't really gotten an increase in call volume the first month.

I told him that SEO is a long process and not to expect noticeable changes the first month, but that he could expect changes in the coming months.

I unveiled my website overhaul plan and he liked it. There is a load of search volume that can be captured just by optimizing for it. His current website does not even have service pages! I plan to structure the website like this:
Tier 0:
Tier 1:

Tier 2:
New Patients has links to form downloads (new patient forms, insurance, etc.)

Services links out to his services.

Areas We Serve links out to landing pages for surrounding towns. The landers will have 250-300 unique content + links out to service pages. Due to how the Map Pack works, I will not be able to rank in the Map Packs for surrounding towns, but I could still rank organically, especially vs. weakly-optimized markets. As long as the towns aren't too far, and I have tasty title tags/metadescriptions (and maybe some rich snippet wizardry), then I can probably get some clicks. If I can even generate a few leads a month from this strategy, it will be worth it.

Patient Education used to be the blog - but no one's going to a local dentist's blog unless it is absolutely amazing. So I'm renaming it Patient Education and will post content regularly (based around longtails and lower-volume KWs to soak up all the search volume possible). i.e. The Psychological Benefits of Teeth Whitening, etc.

Tier 3:
There may be one or two services that can link out to sub-services. For instance, orthodontics is a service. But Invisalign is a subservice of orthodontics. But I might just make separate service pages for Orthodontics and Invisalign.


So the deepest the site will go is maybe 3 clicks. Likely 2.

I know exactly how I want the site to look aesthetically, as well as the link structure.

I just have never re-designed a site so I don't know shit about possibly losing ranks. I'm going completely white-hat with proper content so I don't really see why I would lose ranking. I guess I have to do some research to see if I'm at risk though.

But more important than any of this was that I came prepared with a shitload of questions, opened up the voice-recording app on the iPhone, pressed record, got out my yellow legal pad, and just let him talk. I asked a dickload of questions to the point where it became a casual conversation with jokes, laughter, personal anecdotes, etc. The total recording is over 1 hour long.

I asked him about everything from his equipment to procedures, common fears and objections, his preferences, etc. I also asked his secretary about common questions people have when they call, as well as how she handles people (she is really good with them, and I wanted to understand the average customer and how to please them).

I also asked him about his business goals and current objectives like @NotAllenTuring mentioned above. He told me that his longtime assistant recently quit (or was let go, I forget). He jokingly asked if I knew any assistants.

I might try to run a FB ad for $20-40 just to see if I can land him some interview candidates. It's not in my job plan, but fuck it. It's cool and interesting to me, and it helps him.



He also asked mentioned that if this magical SEO stuff happens to work, he would love to recommend me to others. He said he knows a bunch of people who own their own businesses. So we'll see how that goes.


Time to go to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu class - I started a month ago and get my ass choked out and fucked up every class. But you get a little better everytime. Kinda like anything - you just gotta do it. I actually got my first submission last week - I got a rear naked choke on another white belt, lol.


Thanks to those who provide input and help me on BHW

Reads like a f* plan!

Two last tidbits that may be help:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSocialDude/status/1009219506193829888

https://searchengineland.com/website-redesigns-retain-improve-seo-289879

Good luck getting knocked down and choked out & keep kicking ass!

NotAllenTuring said:

Go to the meeting.

When you step in the door tell him that you got 30 minutes time and then you’ll have to leave for another client meeting. Next tell him you’re glad that he invited you, because you still got a couple of questions.

Ask him what he (still) considers his biggest obstacle in meeting his business goals. When he answers you with something, simply ask him why. “Why do you consider X problematic?” When he explains the problem, write it down and them ask “why?” again. Let him answer. Then ask him what else is holding his business back. Follow it up whit the same question: why? and “what you think will happen if X isn’t fixed” or “why is that important?”

If he gets annoyed tell him you understand that it is annoying to keep hearing “why?”, but you need to ask that because you want to help him to the best of your ability and you’ll need to know what then exact problem(s) are or else you can’t really help him.

After he doesn’t have any other problems to share, start to recap what the just told you and follow that up with the question if you got that right. If he comfirms, tell him you will send him a proposal around Wednesday for what you just discussed and you will call him on Thursday to ask if he got any questions about the proposal.

Then remind him about the review cards you made and ask if he still hands them over to every client he gets. After that go over the Yelp results for a couple of minutes and remind him again about the importance of the review cards.

After that, tell him you’re glad you’ve met and that you guys will go out for drinks in a couple of weeks time, on you ofcourse, to discuss progress. Then it’s time to leave, because you got other clients waiting.

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This here is what I have exactly done to a client of mine. Works very effectively. It builds a connection in the sense that he feels like you want the best for him (which I assume you do) and it gets the meeting done as fast as possible.

ThatSEO said:

Nah - we deal with budgets of 10k+ a month - full blown reports waste time. We have ranking and traffic reports and bullet points - and phone calls

The ‘report’ should have been set up and agreed before any client is ever taken on.

Long reports Never get read

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I agree. The agency I worked for would spend 4 hours for every client just to write a long-ass report of 20+ pages. Of course, these 4 hours were billable at normal rate - £100 + VAT per hour. This almost always created more confusion for the clients. Those 4 hours can be spent on actually marketing the business.

Weldone OP