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Webmaster Tool is our enemy

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by Flodner, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. Flodner

    Flodner Regular Member

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    I noticed that I received a message from webmaster tools. I think that's one more example why we (Black Hat SEOs) need to stay away from it! I just posted this post on my blog and decided to share this text here with you.
    Sorry if you find it written in a simple style, cause I wrote it for a blog


    Recently there was Google?s update. I read many posts and thoughts of people talking about it. Interesting topic for me was discussing Sape and whether Google hit this network or no. The opinions are controversial, but most of the people agree last update has nothing to do with Sape, some sites? positions fell a little bit, but for others improved.
    In general I didn?t notice negative impact neither on my sites nor on the sites of my clients. But there is one interesting example. Usually I don?t use webmasters tools, for different reasons. Some of the sites I have even before these tools were launched. But there is 1 site for which I set up these tools. And here is the message I?ve got (I think it?s pretty standard but still I?m publishing it)

    Dear Site Owner or Webmaster of **********,

    We?ve detected that some of your site?s pages may be using techniques that are outside Google?s Webmaster Guidelines.
    Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links on your site, pointing to other sites that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include selling links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.
    We encourage you to make changes to your site, so that it meets our Quality Guidelines. Once you?ve made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google?s search results.
    If you have additional questions about how to resolve this issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.

    Yours sincerely,
    Google Search Quality Team


    Yes, that site I used for selling links on Sape. It had PR3, now it has 0. But I was using 8 more sites (from the same account) to sell links and the amount of links sold was much higher. All the other saved their PR and there were not drop in rankings. I think the reason why is obvious ? that?s because I?m not using webmaster tools for them! On one of these sites I sell links for years and there was a short term drop from PR4 to PR3 but it was for other reasons and later it became PR4 once again.

    Of course the fall of my site lowers the links from it. There are still there but no wonder if the buyers will delete them. Then I think I?ll delete all the other links and won?t sell links from it. On the next update I expect PR3 will be restored.
    That?s a small example but I think it demonstrates the way Google fight paid links. It fights them with webmaster tools and punishes webmasters. Those why buy links from such sites (detected by Webmaster tools) are punished too because these links are devalued. So in such way Google makes a double shot.

    It?s up to you if you are going to use Webmasters tools or not. But if you use some ?not allowed? techniques and buying links is not appreciated by Google ? stay away from webmasters tools!
     
  2. aka sam

    aka sam Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    +2 for you thoughts.
     
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  3. zerofoxtrot

    zerofoxtrot Senior Member

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    Webmaster Fools
     
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  4. Flodner

    Flodner Regular Member

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    Thanks, I heard from some black hat seos that it's better not to use neither google analytics nor webmaster tools. And I don't use them in general, because I prefer other products.
    But this example is clear.
    With other sites everything is ok
    Even with the site for which I posted many GSA and Licorne links rose in positions, but only the one with webmaster tools dropped. and lost ALL its PR
     
  5. the_demon

    the_demon Jr. Executive VIP

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    I don't give a shit about bragging, below is just to make a point.


    ugh... not even going to respond, op your comments show ignorance. Obviously you're techniques just weren't that good to begin with (no offense).

    I run a massive black hat network (on the side) separate from my main accounts and other networks... Google doesn't even pick up on it with or without web master tools (I've done both), and I sit back making bank from it. It uses borderline ever elite level black hat tactic in the book.

    Google sucks ass at catching real black hatters ;)
     
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  6. Duffers5000

    Duffers5000 Elite Member

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    You had Webmaster analytics installed on a site you were hawking Sape.ru links on ?

    Sorry for your loss and all that but what did you expect to happen there ?
     
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  7. Gogol

    Gogol Elite Member

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    +4 ................
     
  8. Flodner

    Flodner Regular Member

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    I'm not talking here about my techniques. Last time I was busy with other stuff, so mostly I did nothing for all of my sites. But they all PR2-4 are good, except the 1 sites which had webmasters tools on it.
    I posted this to notify those who don't know the negative aspect of webmaster tools if you are using some technique which Google considers bad.
    Think of it as a Google's spy in your stuff.
     
  9. seveneleven

    seveneleven Power Member

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    I agree with OP, GA and WT are shit and do have a direct effect on your blackhat techniques. I have been a blackhatter for many years and avoid there crap like the plague
     
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  10. Flodner

    Flodner Regular Member

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    Webmaster Tools, not google analytics, but I think google analytics act also negatively in this case.
    Nevermind, it's no loss)
    I did not buy any single link for that site. I sold link from it (through Sape). but I did it from other sites too, 2-5 times more links. They were not affected, only the 1 with webmasters tools.
    So that's the ideas that webmaster tools is one of google's method for devaluation "bad" sites. And selling links is bad
     
  11. Smart SEO

    Smart SEO Senior Member

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    They will all get the penalty eventually. To be honest i would rather have them telling me that i got penalized earlier rather than waiting months and seeing my rankings drop without knowing the cause of it. Sape will get shut down eventually, i know it sounds harsh but its the truth.
     
  12. innozemec

    innozemec Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I have been avoiding the tools and analytics for years and I am doing just fine... Everybody has a choice to use them or not, but always bear in mind that for sure google is using the data gathered and linked in those two tools in his own favor, not yours for sure!
     
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  13. Swarm

    Swarm Newbie

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    Google doesn't use GWT to devalue bad sites. They use both GA and GWT to collect and correlate data. Sites that correlate abnormally are then flagged for manual reviews. Finding link network footprints is a fairly straight forward process for Google because of the high correlation of identical domains pointing away from the footprint. It's a mathematical calculation essentially.

    The visibility that both GA and GWT provide Google is quite literally giving the fox the key to the hen house but not in the way most people think. Data is the new oil. Most people don't realize that Google owns all of their data in GA and GWT. The webmasters do not own their own data, Google does. That's the price of using these free tools.

    I'm a bit paranoid about Google's data collection practices as well. For an added margin of safety, IMO, site owners running SAPE links or other public facing link networks should run GWT only for diagnostic purposes, ie find out if their being penalized, downloading GWT links for link pruning, etc. I've researched what links to focus on in link pruning campaigns to remove penalties and a Google engineer himself said that it's more practical for removing penalties to focus on the GWT link profile in your link removal efforts.

    After doing the diagnostic and pulling down your links, remove the site from your GWT account and, if you're really paranoid like me, remove the HTML file used to verify the site for GWT.
     
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  14. Flodner

    Flodner Regular Member

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    In this particular example I'm not talking about buying links from sape, but about selling links.
    On one of the sites I'm selling links for many years and it didn't get penalty. Of course I think that without so many outbound link it would rank better, but then it won't bring money.
    I'm sure Sape won't be shut down. Sites using Sape may be affected somehow, but Sape is so big so they won't disappear at once. They can even create own social network))
     
  15. innozemec

    innozemec Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    just think about it guys.. before couple of years when google didn't know anything about you, how easy was it to be #1 and to manipulate it.. now when it actually started using all the data it collects it know all your sites, all linking practices, detects private networks and etc and etc..
     
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  16. Flodner

    Flodner Regular Member

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    That's almost what I thought. So sites without GWT and GA are not noticed, even though they have more links sold from them and even linked among themselves.
     
  17. tb303

    tb303 Power Member

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    I doubt theres much risk from just Google Webmaster Tools on a site. Its just 0 byte file that proves you control the site.

    All the data you see with it google already has anyway. It has no way other than SERP clicks to monitor your traffic to maybe flag suspicious link building.
    The only risk I see is if you have multiple sites of your network in the same account. One gets flagged for something they can easily link the rest and your screwed then.

    Google Analytics is a bad idea though as that runs and tracks referrers etc. I never use that.
     
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