Web Developing [Necessary] Languages

artizhay said:

Mm...you shouldn't learn jQuery and skip over javascript, as suggested above, because the underlying jQuery is, I don't know, based on javascript. If you don't know how to use javascript, you'll never understand what you're doing in jQuery.

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I disagree.

jQuery is a library to make javascript easier and do more with less code, so first you can learn jQuery and make things using jQuery, then if you want some very very complicated stuff then you can go with javascript.

QuiGloriam said:

I disagree.jQuery is a library to make javascript easier and do more with less code, so first you can learn jQuery and make things using jQuery, then if you want some very very complicated stuff then you can go with javascript.

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^ this. As I suggested above, you should learn BOTH since while it's certainly true you NEED to know raw javascript in every shape and form to really understand the underpinnings of more complex libraries, overlooking jQuery (or any other framework as widespread) would certainly mean putting yourself in a situation where you might be trying to reinvent the wheel every time, especially when dealing with x-browser development in time sensitive assignments / endeavors. Frameworks should not be abused but they're not always a bad thing

No, to both of you.

The logical progression should be to learn javascript then learn jQuery to make many of the difficult javascript tasks easier.

That would be like implementing a data structure you know nothing about into a software program without understanding how the data is actually stored in memory. Or using a PHP framework before actually learning PHP.

Or for people who don't do much programming, it's the same concept that applies when your math teacher teaches you the hard way to solve a problem before teaching you the formula or other easy way. Otherwise, you know the formula gives you the right answer, and it's easy to use, but you don't know why it gives you the right answer, and ultimately you're no smarter than you were before.

It makes no sense to suggest that he start using a framework before learning about the underlying foundation, else he won't truly know what he's doing. It's irresponsible to suggest something like that to someone just because it's "easier," and ultimately you're doing him more harm than good.

You don't build the walls of a house and then put the foundation down after the house is built. That's just rampantly moronic.

It really depends @artizhay, your analogy is NOT necessarily accurate and there's no such thing as a LOGICAL progression related to a timeline that can apply here. "Logic" here is used out of scope. Due to the very nature of programming you DO NOT need to know assembly to code in c, fuck yeah it helps understanding the underpinnings and will probably make you a better coder but you DO NOT need it. Period. You DO NOT need to know how malloc works if all you do is coding in c# with garbage collection. Again, you'll almost certainly end up being a WAY BETTER programmer if you go to the underlying layer of EVERYTHING in IT, for instance you might know how a TCP frame works, so doesn't knowing how an underlying IP frame works or maybe even lower to an ethernet/wifi frame to even how diodes and transistors work on your motherboard prevent you from writing web apps? NO, of course. Same for javascript/jQuery. A lot of times all of of this digging is NOT required, especially as I wrote in time sensitive environments where the priority *might* be having code that *just* works as opposed to having a thorough understanding of how individual browsers handle certain tasks specifically.

Hey lakim0,
I would really wave here for a change in perspective. My personal experience is that learning programming languages on their own is just not very directed. Sooner or later you forget about it and its somehow impractical.
I would suggest another way: Make yourself a small project at first. Just a website with a wordpress or another cms like drupal or joomla. In your project, define some goals like: I want to write an article with with some links and maybe additional media. Then you make something and learn what you have to know "on the fly": Maybe you need some css skills for a template, maybe some html for an iframe or php for a little script etc.
The point is: you have results and the knowledge sticks. And after half a year you can even make some money out of some sort of online-consulting for local businesses. It's worth it - get dangerous fast!

experienced web programmer here, +1 on most of what was written:

at this point in time for webdev: php and mysql, html, css, javascript and jquery - all absolute must.

anything else - python, java, c#.. not necessary initially and probably not even later (unless you have a project that specifically requires them, or if the tech landscape changes in the future).

I want to make plugins. What do I need to learn? I'm guessing JS, JQuery, and what else?

artizhay said:

No, to both of you.

The logical progression should be to learn javascript then learn jQuery to make many of the difficult javascript tasks easier.

That would be like implementing a data structure you know nothing about into a software program without understanding how the data is actually stored in memory. Or using a PHP framework before actually learning PHP.

Or for people who don't do much programming, it's the same concept that applies when your math teacher teaches you the hard way to solve a problem before teaching you the formula or other easy way. Otherwise, you know the formula gives you the right answer, and it's easy to use, but you don't know why it gives you the right answer, and ultimately you're no smarter than you were before.

It makes no sense to suggest that he start using a framework before learning about the underlying foundation, else he won't truly know what he's doing. It's irresponsible to suggest something like that to someone just because it's "easier," and ultimately you're doing him more harm than good.

You don't build the walls of a house and then put the foundation down after the house is built. That's just rampantly moronic.

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No for you.

You can find complete videotutorials about how to learn jQuery from nothing, cero understanding of javascript, those tutorials are premium on Envato. And he explain how to use it without any javascript knowledge.

It's common that you learn language and then framework (almost always), but with jQuery you can do reverse way.

swi7ch said:

I want to make plugins. What do I need to learn? I'm guessing JS, JQuery, and what else?

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plugins for what?