andyframpton
Senior Member
- Nov 18, 2014
- 865
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And the 9th one. It’s on there twice.Its the second one...
Universal Basic Income?
- Thread starter AlexanderTheGreat
- Start date
ExperimentalSEO
Regular Member
- Mar 1, 2018
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Hiring a real person will eventually become a sign of wealth and brag to other people.
Could AI DJ your wedding? Yes, however if you have money why not hire a person to DJ the wedding to show to other people that you have more money to spend than just using some cheap AI.
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TheWicker
Senior Member
- May 15, 2008
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Never have I said they are investing into AI in relation to UBI. I said UBI will be a consequence of AI. Nor did I say that UBI is the only solution. There almost never is one solution to any problem, sometimes there are even multitudes. How UBI will function is not set in stone. It is a dynamic and ever-evolving idea. Unless we manage to destroy most of the planet and go towards a dystopian future... some kind of UBI will surely need to be implemented just for the sake of keeping social peace.
Actually... most of what you listed here are already in the process of losing their job. I don't have the time to dissect all of them, but just as food for thought... replacing a lawyer is actually one of the easier things to do with AI and an AI will do it much better. All your maids and personal service providers on your list, guess what, this year alone Hanson Robotics is shipping AI robots to take care of people in the hospitals. As far as your porn stars and web cams are concerned... with deep fakes you won't know which is which.
Neural-symbolic AIs will be able to discern all that people can discern.
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SKS18
Registered Member
- Oct 21, 2020
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Let us hope you are right, things are looking good in the near future though.
ExperimentalSEO
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TheWicker
Senior Member
- May 15, 2008
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Whatever you want to believe
It's not my prerogative to change whatever you want to believe. But perhaps diving a bit deeper into the topic could open your mind on just how "easy" this will be done. If not then not, your life.
Here's a hint though. For everything else you still have google. I'm out for today.
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moonshine7000
Elite Member
- Mar 4, 2013
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Bad idea there is no such thing is free money this will create massive inflation.
Priince1337
Elite Member
- Aug 23, 2013
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If everyone has more money prices will increase. Nice way to force inflation.
moonshine7000
Elite Member
- Mar 4, 2013
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Yes if everybody is a millionaire nobody won't want to work to create goods or services the whole system will collapse eventually.
Priince1337
Elite Member
- Aug 23, 2013
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It's not about being a millionaire, but receiving a few hundred dollars each month no matter your personal situation. But if everyone has more money, prices will start to increase due to higher demand, which in the end means that your money is worth less.
Dark Sky
Banned - leaving fake reviews.
- Apr 3, 2019
- 1,610
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Things are not looking good at all my friend, the pandemic has accelerated the global debt crisis which was already looming, now we have to sort the climate change issue out which costs more money, followed by a global population crisis that's already happening. And some of us still haven't recovered from the 2008 financial crisis yet. All whilst an obesity crisis is happening and causing healthcare a ton of money.
Meanwhile tensions are rising globally.
I'm not sure what looks good at all, we have multiple global issues happening. We have a global debt crisis looming and the worst part of the global debt crisis is, the governments know it's coming, and they have no idea how to stop it unlike every other crisis.
D
Deleted member 1333509
Guest
Fair enough, but the wording you used was pretty ambiguous.
in the same comment you said "There almost never is one solution to any problem, sometimes there are even multitudes" and "Unless we manage to destroy most of the planet and go towards a dystopian future... some kind of UBI will surely need to be implemented just for the sake of keeping social peace."
I think the first comment is right and the second one might be right but probably not. There are lots of solutions and I don't think that UBI will be the only way that within the context of employment displacement from AI we can keep social peace.
It will likely be the fastest used attempted solution though, but I think there will be potentially pretty catastrophic outcomes from it.
ExperimentalSEO
Regular Member
- Mar 1, 2018
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Whatever you want to believe
It's not my prerogative to change whatever you want to believe. But perhaps diving a bit deeper into the topic could open your mind on just how "easy" this will be done. If not then not, your life.
Here's a hint though. For everything else you still have google. I'm out for today.
View attachment 171194
You do realize that lawyers have lots of money, and that many politicians are/were lawyers?
andyframpton
Senior Member
- Nov 18, 2014
- 865
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You still never explained the economic to this backwards thinker.
You have explain AI very well. You are clearly very knowledgeable on that subject. But you have not explained UBI economic. Which is what this thread was about.
JavascriptPufferfish
Supreme Member
- Sep 13, 2019
- 1,381
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i agree its definitely a "will they let us do it?" problem rather than a "can it be done?" one. i don't want to get into a big argument, but I would argue that politicians don't identify themselves primarily as lawyers anymore (in the professional sense, as going back to being a lawyer would be a downgrade from being a politician), and in a world where lawyers relevance is being put into question, they wouldn't have many incentives to cater to lawyers. i think we will end with a hybrid system where the judicial system's menial, repetitive and bureaucratic tasks will be managed by AI. i may be biased, as I look forward to a world where bureaucracy can be minimized, optimized, and managed by machines.
PatientlyBecoming
Newbie
- Apr 24, 2021
- 20
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The disconnect I have with the UBI is the belief that rich people would suddenly become altruistic and want to support the masses when throughout time they have only cared about squeezing as much as possible out of us. If UBI were to become a thing, I would immediately begin looking for what they demand I give up. My first thought being that article by the WEF on the year is 2030, you own nothing and you're happy. I guarantee if that comes to pass, there will still be elites who then own everything. Not that they don't already, they just wont have to pretend they allow us the illusion of owning things. Then they can more openly force us to rent the same products only as services.
ExperimentalSEO
Regular Member
- Mar 1, 2018
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But they have friends from law school, and many will have a family member that is a lawyer.
Trial lawyers are here to stay, its just that they may use AI in their legal research to enhance their business.
CoderFromHell
Power Member
- Mar 19, 2019
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Just will create more lazy people and cripple the economy.
TheWicker
Senior Member
- May 15, 2008
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You are right and I apologize for my wording. Explaining things is usually not my strength. I also have a tendency to assume people know what I mean and then I realize they don't. One more reason is that English is not my main language. It's not an excuse, but it is a factor.
UBI will surely be one form of dealing with the job loss crisis. I repeat, I never said it will be the only one solution. It does not mean people will be out of work. It may just mean that AIs will do all the work we dread... giving us the opportunity to do the work we would like to do. Whether we are paid for it or not.
There will be (already are) surpluses created by AI. A lot of those. The only question is whether you want to leave all of that to the elites or get a cut of it (in the form of UBI).
I hope the above also very briefly explains the economic logic of UBI in regards to AI @andyframpton.
It is entirely my problem but replies like these do raise my temperature:
What does this have to do with anything??? I gave you a whole schemantic that you will have a real hard time finding anywhere because it's proprietary and you respond if I know lawyers are politicians? You know who else are politicians? Plumbers, waiters, chauffeurs, teachers, stonemasons... [insert your any other profession here]. The following formula is always correct:
corporations > politics
And right now corporations all around the globe are investing in AI. What do you think the policies are gonna look like?
And even if completely disregard the policies... you can absolutely and in no way stop the development of AI, even if you place a personal dictator in every town of your country, in all the countries of the world.
You have no knowledge of AI and what it can do as is evidenced by your replies.
Confidence without clarity is a very stupid idea. You seem to be very confident in making predictions and assumptions about a technology you have no knowledge of.
How do I know this?
AI is already making money for me and replaced the need for me to work in order to survive. Probably for the rest of my life. In essence I am getting an UBI if you will allow me to say it. Only difference here is that I was personally involved in making this happen and did not wait for the government to provide it for me. I know first hand what AI can do and so I sincerely hope that the economic excesses get divided between people in the form of an UBI. Else, as I said, it will be distributed among the elites. As it is done since decades. AI managed hedge funds consistently outperform human ones. AI can even analyze sentiment and change strategies on the fly.
The problem here is that so many people are buying and believing the narrative that the lobbies are pushing out. And here again we have a classic and stupid response that is brought forth by the elites and absorbed by the sheep:
NO. Absolutely NO. UBI can take care of your survival mode and free your mind and time to do much better things and things that you perhaps actually enjoy doing. Wouldn't that be something? Isn't the wish of financial freedom the reason you joined this forum? Majority of people will be like this. And those people wgi choose to do nothing... horray! We need diversity, we need variety... and well guess what, with an already shattered planet that we created, doing nothing might in many many cases be much better than doing something.
The longer UBI is held back, the more the elites will grab for themselves.
So I am pushing this PRO UBI narrative here. Perhaps there will be one or two people who will listen. Others are way too proud and will disagree just to satisfy their ego... so that they are the ones who have the last response and "be right". However, I know it is akin to telling my dog that he should not eat every crap he sees when I take him out for a walk. There is plenty of food at home. He gets it and will continue to get delicious food to the table every day. But he will still eat all the dung he can find.
It pisses me off when someone is ignorant of a reality that I am already living. And then this random guy on the internet says it's not possible.
In any case, I also apologize for the harsh words that I said to ExperimentalSEO and CoderFromHell in this response. It was said on the premise of good faith. Tough love is what I hope you will get out of this as I sincerely wish you the best and hope you will find a spark of humility and interest to maybe reconsider your stance. If not, than that is fine with me. The message was well intended. What you gather from it is your own personal choice. I have nothing to gain from this.
In any case I am leaving this conversation as I learned not to waste energy and time where in an ambient of disagreement. Time and energy should always be directed towards maximum impact and efficiency. AI may bring us ample money, but time is limited. Hitting a brick wall every step of the way is not a good use of my time.
Best wishes to all of you.
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ExperimentalSEO
Regular Member
- Mar 1, 2018
- 451
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I have a good understanding of AI, and also how the world works which is something you don't understand.