This is how you look like when you're drunk...

Oh, and I don't think OP had bad intentions guys. I don't know him personally, but I have a feeling he didn't mean to offend anyone and bash a homeless guy.

thedon23 said:

I don't really know if I could say alcoholism is a disease for all. It's kind of like the topic of whether depression is genetic or not.

Regardless, poor guy. I swear if I was rich I'd try to help every homeless person I could. I've never had a bad run in with a homeless person. They are such kind people. Sure, some of them did end up their because of their own choices..doesn't mean they deserve it though. We all make mistakes in life, seriously.

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I agree. And on the opposite end, if I were rich, I'd try to make sure these kinds of people got what they deserved.

http://www.missionmission.org/2012/...nown-mission-homeless-man-for-no-good-reason/

Deleted member 84902 said:

Alcoholism or a dependence on alcohol isn't formed overnight though. Typically it begins purely because of of the chemical reaction that goes on in the brain. A person seeks to recreate that feeling so they go back for more. Eventually, in really bad cases, it goes on to that person feeling as though they need the alcohol to get through to the day. That's when you have a disease, a mental one.

Same can be said for just about anything. Alcohol, drugs, video games, hell even IM.

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And I don't think we are disputing that in this thread. But to suggest very plainly that people , consciously and with a healthy mind, choose a lifestyle of being homeless in order to be able to abuse drugs and alcohol, over living in a nice house with food in their stomachs, is ridiculous. I would think that decision in itself would qualify the person as having some mental disorder or disease.

arcticfang said:

I agree. And on the opposite end, if I were rich, I'd try to make sure these kinds of people got what they deserved.

http://www.missionmission.org/2012/02/08/dude-with-bike-verbally-abuses-known-mission-homeless-man-for-no-good-reason/

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Oh yeah man, seen that in the news. Tons of stuff like that happens. I remember a couple years back, some homeless guy was burned alive. I mean, I couldn't do that to ANYONE. But especially to a poor, defenseless homeless person..makes me sick

Kickflip said:

And I don't think we are disputing that in this thread. But to suggest very plainly that people , consciously and with a healthy mind, choose a lifestyle of being homeless in order to be able to abuse drugs and alcohol, over living in a nice house with food in their stomachs, is ridiculous. I would think that decision in itself would qualify the person as having some mental disorder or disease.

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By the time a person is on the streets, their problem with alcohol has been practically cemented. A person doesn't pick up a bottle of beer one night and then wake up in the streets with nothing to their name.

consciously and with a healthy mind

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Again, by the time a person is out on the streets, alcohol has already taken its toll on their ability to think logically.

Your posts almost imply that a person consciously decides that they'll just up and leave everything and the live on a street while drinking booze all day. That's not the case. It happens in stages gradually as explained in one of my previous sources.

thedon23 said:

Oh yeah man, seen that in the news. Tons of stuff like that happens. I remember a couple years back, some homeless guy was burned alive. I mean, I couldn't do that to ANYONE. But especially to a poor, defenseless homeless person..makes me sick

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Same here, I couldn't imagine just out of the blue doing that to someone. And like you said, to a defenseless homeless person, regardless of how they got there. And you could tell he was trying so hard not to hit the guy, cause if he did he would definitely be the one sitting in jail that night, not the guy harassing him.

Deleted member 84902 said:

being an alcoholic means that you take precedence over having "600 staff to maintain your home"

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I think this is what Kickflip's trying to point out about what you're saying, Deleted member 84902. That makes it sound like you're saying that someone simply chooses to be alcoholic rather than living very well.

Where is the funny part ?

Deleted member 84902 said:

By the time a person is on the streets, their problem with alcohol has been practically cemented. A person doesn't pick up a bottle of beer one night and then wake up in the streets with nothing to their name.

Again, by the time a person is out on the streets, alcohol has already taken its toll on their ability to think logically.

Your posts almost imply that a person consciously decides that they'll just up and leave everything and the live on a street while drinking booze all day. That's not the case. It happens in stages gradually as explained in one of my previous sources.

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I think you are missing the point of this entire discussion. Nigel Farage said that people have that preference, which is suggesting that when given the choice between being able to abuse drugs and alcohol, and living in a nice house, they would choose drugs and alcohol. He specifically used the word prefer. I am not suggesting it at all, I am using Nigel Farage words, which you defended, suggesting he just "worded it a tad poorly".

How can addiction be a preference? Isn't it by definition NOT a preference, but a dependance?

Believe me, Nigel Farage knew what he was saying when he said it. I do not think its a conscious decision at all, you are taking Nigels words and putting them in my mouth.

arcticfang said:

I think this is what Kickflip's trying to point out about what you're saying, Deleted member 84902. That makes it sound like you're saying that someone simply chooses to be alcoholic rather than living very well.

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But by the time a person is an alcoholic, alcohol does take precedence over having staff maintain a home, over having money (except to buy more booze) or even having a home at all.

Close. But I usually curl up under a table or desk. In case there's a tornado.

Deleted member 84902 said:

But by the time a person is an alcoholic, alcohol does take precedence over having staff maintain a home, over having money (except to buy more booze) or even having a home at all.

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Well yes, but that's not the person's choice. As kickflip said, an addiction is not a preference, it's a dependence. The person would not choose alcoholism over a healthy life when in a healthy state of mind.

For example, if you ask a person addicted to nicotine what they would prefer, a nice house and life or a crappy life but cigarettes every day, it depends on their state of mind. If they haven't had a cigarette in a couple of days, they're going to say the cigarettes because it's not their choice - it's their addiction. If you ask them while they're smoking regularly, however, they'll readily admit to you that they would prefer a healthy, good life.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you mean correctly, but you defended Nigel saying it's merely a choice, when it's most definitely not.

Kickflip said:

I think you are missing the point of this entire discussion. Nigel Farage said that people have that preference, which is suggesting that when given the choice between being able to abuse drugs and alcohol, and living in a nice house, they would choose drugs and alcohol. He specifically used the word prefer. I am not suggesting it at all, I am using Nigel Farage words, which you defended, suggesting he just "worded it a tad poorly".

How can addiction be a preference? Isn't it by definition NOT a preference, but a dependance?

Believe me, Nigel Farage knew what he was saying when he said it. I do not think its a conscious decision at all, you are taking Nigels words and putting them in my mouth.

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I was not defending his choice of wording, I'm not defending anything, we are simply having a discussion. I was not even referring to his choice of wording in any of my posts.

All I'm saying is that someone does not consciously decide to become an alcoholic, nor does it occur over night.

An alcoholic is someone who is already in the later stage of alcohol dependency. They don't think like you or I do, all they seek out is to keep that drunken buzz continuing. Thus, an alcoholic will make seeking more booze a much higher priority over having a home full of staff. That is all I'm saying.

The guy is not drunk. He has just lost everything and is just trying to stay alive, keeping himself a little warm, with his jacket.

It is kind of lame that people would make fun of him. I see people like this in India all the time. It is not cold here but people do struggle for food and water. I have personally seen a man stoop down and collect some water from a puddle on the road and drink it!!! Can you imagine that! Heartbreaking.

Most people are pretty unforgiving when it comes to judging these drifters. They usually say that they are lazy, drunks or drug addicts. How does one know though? They guy could have been born into poverty or born into a totally dysfunctional family that might have made him who he is.

When I got out on my bike, a lot of beggars try to get chump change from the cars waiting at the signal. 99% of the car owners here treat the person like a disease, not wanting him or her to even come close. It is so sad to watch. I give them Rs 5 or Rs 10 every time I see them. They look so grateful and some even smile and bless you. I don't care what they do with the money. Maybe they will buy some food or maybe they will just get a drink.

Some people tell me that I shouldn't encourage them. Though I don't tell them to their face, I basically tell them to f*** off in my mind because I feel that they just have that excuse to hide their selfishness, not wanting to part with even small change.

Most of these drifters and beggars need serious mental help. Only the government can try to solve these problems on a mass scale. They need to provide that mental conditioning to help these kind of people get out of their rut. Charitable organizations can do it too I guess. I am not a part of either and all I can do is continue to give them small change to help them get through their days, until maybe one day hope shines through on them.

This thread is going south... we do not know how bad the demons are in others' lives and speculating is hard to do.

The image in the initial post is just plain sad... homeless people have a tough row to hoe.

Making that a joke is not appropriate.

This would be a good thread to close.

arcticfang said:

Well yes, but that's not the person's choice. As kickflip said, an addiction is not a preference, it's a dependence. The person would not choose alcoholism over a healthy life when in a healthy state of mind.

For example, if you ask a person addicted to nicotine what they would prefer, a nice house and life or a crappy life but cigarettes every day, it depends on their state of mind. If they haven't had a cigarette in a couple of days, they're going to say the cigarettes because it's not their choice - it's their addiction. If you ask them while they're smoking regularly, however, they'll readily admit to you that they would prefer a healthy, good life.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you mean correctly, but you defended Nigel saying it's merely a choice, when it's most definitely not.

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For some reason everyone seems to be thinking that I'm talking about someone who drinks once a week with mates at the pub when I'm talking
about an alcoholic. When I quoted Nigel I was referring to a full blown alcoholic.

Nicotine does not alter ones state of mind in the same way that alcohol does, as well. I just asked my Mum who has been smoking since she was 13 what she would prefer if she had been without smokes for weeks, a cigarette or a house full of staff to look after it. Her reaction was instant, the house.

Deleted member 84902 said:

For some reason everyone seems to be thinking that I'm talking about someone who drinks once a week with mates at the pub when I'm talking
about an alcoholic. When I quoted Nigel I was referring to a full blown alcoholic.

Nicotine does not alter ones state of mind in the same way that alcohol does, as well. I just asked my Mum who has been smoking since she was 13 what she would prefer if she had been without smokes for weeks, a cigarette or a house full of staff to look after it. Her reaction was instant, the house.

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Well, the argument has definitely gone south, and I definitely think we've gone a tad too far off-topic. However, in regards to my nicotine example, you asking your mom now while she's in a healthy state of mind isn't near asking her if she was deprived of nicotine. I'm not saying she would prefer the nicotine of course, I obviously don't know her and can't make that judgement, but you can't compare the two states of mind that way.

For those who suffering, I hope you see bright future, because this world need Truth, Compassion and Forbearance.

Its For You babey do not drunk. heheheheh. to funny?

arcticfang said:

Well yes, but that's not the person's choice. As kickflip said, an addiction is not a preference, it's a dependence. The person would not choose alcoholism over a healthy life when in a healthy state of mind.

For example, if you ask a person addicted to nicotine what they would prefer, a nice house and life or a crappy life but cigarettes every day, it depends on their state of mind. If they haven't had a cigarette in a couple of days, they're going to say the cigarettes because it's not their choice - it's their addiction. If you ask them while they're smoking regularly, however, they'll readily admit to you that they would prefer a healthy, good life.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you mean correctly, but you defended Nigel saying it's merely a choice, when it's most definitely not.

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Thing is everyone who starts smoking KNOWS nicotine is addictive and they have these huge stickers that remind you that they are and what effects on your health they can have. Same goes for everything from alcohol to heroin. People know what these things do, they know the risks involved and they make the conscious choice to participate in the consumption of the substance. So it is - definitely - a choice.

Addictions are not a disease. The only thing this perspective does is take away responsibility from the user who is unsatisfied with his habits for one reason or another. I have friends and relatives who have stopped years-long heroin abuse and have went on to a healthy way of life. Did it involve paying their dues because of a bad choice they made? Yes. Did they assume the victim mentality in their struggle? No.

Otherwise, who knows what that guy on the picture is.. Last time I checked 3 BILLION people - half the world population - lives on less than $2.50 a day. So I should say there has been an overreaction on the part of some users about the OP intending this as a humurous image.. Maybe it wasn't particularly funny, but human life on Earth ain't easy and that's just how it is.. moral crusades don't change that. If that's your reaction to a single image I have NO idea how you watch TV for example..