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Think you know about Panda? Panda Completely Broken Down

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by ozone100, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. ozone100

    ozone100 Newbie

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    This is my first post. To give you some background about myself, I manage the SEO department for a large internet marketing company. I am very new to black hat but love learning about it. Anyways...

    I have been reading a lot of posts on the forums about panda and many of them aren't entirely accurate. I wanted to help clear up some of the confusion about the panda updates to help you guys get your traffic back. Despite the lack of panda success case studies, there has been a lot of correlation analysis which show what may or may not be a factor with the panda updates.

    While there is a lot of debate about all factors that affect panda, essentially there are a few main factors that put a website at risk for the panda penalty:
    - Duplicate content/thin content
    - Usage metrics
    - Template footprint


    Duplicate Content:

    Panda looks at the ratio of unique content to duplicate content both internally and externally. This was mainly put in place to target autoblogs. Many autoblogs have a high % of duplicate content which puts them at high risk for the panda penalty. "Thin content" refers to any page with little or no content. Having a high % of thin content is another high risk factor in the panda penalty. Basically make sure you don't have 100s or 1000s of pages with just an image and/or no text. Also, if you are autoblogging make sure you always spin the articles.

    Usage Metrics:

    Google looks at the bounce rate of websites as a panda factor. If people are clicking on your page and then returning back to the SERP, Google is aware and can pandalize your site. Many people recommend having some sort of call to action to get visitors to click on at least 1 additional page which can reduce your bounce rate.

    Template Footprint:

    Having a small % of original content on your website template can come across spammy to Google. Try to minimize your template footprint and be careful about how you use you are using your ads. Having too many ads can also get you pandalized.

    The misconception of links:

    Many people on this forum mention that spammy links can get your website hit by the panda penalty. This is 100% untrue and I will explain why. Google already has their own methods of detecting and devaluing spammy links. They have also had link related penalties in place way before panda that specifically target websites with spammy link profiles. So in theory you could get a link based penalty as well as the panda penalty. That said, many correlation studies on panda shown that links are not a factor and it is mainly the previously mentioned factors.

    Other notes about panda:
    - The panda algorithm is ran against Google's index every 4-6 weeks
    - It is a domain based penalty, if you get the penalty all your rankings will suffer, not just the duplicate/thin pages.
    - The penalty works more like a volume knob than a light switch. The severity of the penalty is based on the amount of duplicate content, % bounce rate, and how heavy your template foot print is.

    More about panda:

    I can't post links but one of the best SEO's in the world, Rand Fiskhin, has 2 good resources for learning more about panda. If you want to read them search for the following, both are from SEOmoz:
    - "Google's Farmer/Panda Update: Analysis of Winners vs. Losers"
    - "How Google's Panda Update Changed SEO Best Practices Forever - Whiteboard Friday"

    Hope this clears some things up!
     
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  2. themidiman

    themidiman Power Member

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    My question is, Is it just the "back button" bounce rate, or also the bounce rate in G analytics that affects rankings. I have site's with very high bounce rates in G analytics, but perform very well in search.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  3. loclhero

    loclhero Supreme Member

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    Brilliant retort. You sure showed him up huh
     
  4. navimeister

    navimeister Regular Member

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    Just because there have been measures before to detect spammy links does not mean they can't make it part of Panda. Why would it mean that? I am starting to think that is why my site is hit. I have similar bounce rate as my competitors, similar site layout, unique content, and a shitload of new spammy links. That's the only difference I can see. I am hit, they are not. Go figure.
     
  5. Blueprint

    Blueprint Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Manager of an entire SEO department and only just learning blackhat!? :confused:... Goes to show why so many/most agencies i've had the misfortune to work with are a waste of time and money and mostly talk crap. If a manager of SEO didn't know the full spectrum of all SEO i'd seriously question what they're doing as a manager.
     
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  6. themidiman

    themidiman Power Member

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    Not my intention.

    2 year old niece decided to play with computer while I was tending to her twin sister.

    Don't babysit twins.

    *edited post.
     
  7. oneder

    oneder Regular Member

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    I don't think so. I had a number of site all linked the same. One was hit bad, like he said the domain was de-valued, the others were fine except a few keywords.

    My wife's site was completely tanked, all original, well researched content, no spam links, really no artificial linking at all...
     
  8. wannabie

    wannabie Elite Member

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    I have a few comments on this but I'll do that tomorrow as its bed time for me
     
  9. davids355

    davids355 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Good post, thanks.
     
  10. ozone100

    ozone100 Newbie

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    It's only the back button bounce rate. Google doesn't use analytics data because a) not all sites use google analytics and b) that would be against their privacy policy.

    It's almost impossible to differentiate the affects of the panda penalty and a link based penalty. But if you look at correlation data it's clear that links were not a factor. Search "Google's Farmer/Panda Update: Analysis of Winners vs. Losers" to read more about it. PM me your domain and I can check it out if you would like.

    There's a few reason agencies shy away from black hat SEO. The main reason companies don't want to be associated with black hat SEO is because it has a bad rap in most of the corporate world, but more importantly it's risky. Even if there is a 1% chance a website could get penalized using black hat methods, that's enough for a client not to want it. Many clients are eCommerce sites with over $10,000,000 a year in revenues. Getting a penalty means that they are out of business and people lose their jobs...it's not a gamble they are willing to take.
     
  11. AriVat

    AriVat Registered Member

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    I believe the comment was about a SEO department manager not being versed on BH techniques rather than why these techniques aren't used by the (a) marketing company...
     
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  12. Moogle!

    Moogle! Regular Member

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    I agree with everything you said OP.

    Thanks for the call to action idea, this should help reduce the bounce rate of my MFA sites. :D

    I'd like to add a couple of suggestions on how to not get pandalized:

    - CS passed articles with atleast 400 words.
    - Link variety (Web 2.0/Social Bookmarks/Article Directories/Website Directories/Forum Profiles/Blog Comments.)
    - Maintain link velocity.
    - 30% of your backlinks goes to root and 70% to the rest of your site.
    - Use a couple of irrelevant anchor text (click here,here,site etc.)
    - Use a custom header/logo and add an image or video to lower the bounce rate.
    - Put a call to action image in the landing page that redirects visitors to an inner page, this should help reduce the bounce rate some more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
  13. ozone100

    ozone100 Newbie

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    Believe me I wish I knew as much as some of the veterans of the forum. But at the end of the day, time is a limited resource. Just keeping up with white hat trends and the SEO industry takes a lot of time and energy. The only time I have to learn black hat is in my free time...which is very limited. Learning how properly use some of the black hat software is not easy and takes many hours to master. It doesn't make sense to spend time learning software and techniques that I won't be using. That's not to say I'm not knowledgeable of black hat techniques and tactics in general.
     
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  14. googlemonster

    googlemonster Supreme Member

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    OP should work for Goggle, just reverse engineered it! Non of this is anything to do with Panda LOL
     
  15. navimeister

    navimeister Regular Member

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    Thanks, sent you a PM.
     
  16. download

    download Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Pretty helpful post - thanks for the info on bounce rate, I'd guessed that it had an affect on SERPS but hadn't really worked on lowering it.

    And welcome to BHW!
     
  17. -FPC-

    -FPC- Regular Member

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    Um no. You're totally bullshitting you clearly haven't read G's privacy policy and don't understand their business model. They do own the stats, use them and monetize them.
     
  18. johndea

    johndea Regular Member

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    I would be interested in more in depth discussion of the privacy policy.
     
  19. cristianraiber

    cristianraiber Regular Member

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    It's a decent read
     
  20. Ralkoehan

    Ralkoehan Newbie

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    I own a site with only original content, it's a blog updated twice/week, the posts use to be quite long... and it was heavily pandalized (40% traffic loss).
    The bounce rate is about 50% (in Google Analytics) and now I'm working in reducing the template footprint because I don't really know why the site was affected.