Staying completely anonymous?

I'm guessing most people selling "private proxy's" if demanded by some sort of legal authority to hand over our information, well they would have to? If we were to say, mass spam a popular website, who have enough money to track us down as far as possible.

I've done some reading and from the few things I've read, I've found that it's best to get a proxy located in another country as it would be harder for forces to track you down (from the server logs) as they'd have trouble co-operating with the other country's legal system among other issues they have.


If someone needed to stay anonymous for 3 things, lets say.. registering a foreign domain name, getting the hosting to back it up and finally the payment to fund the above. Well, how would they go about doing it?

The best method I can think of is using a proxy inside of a proxy, from different country's and different proxy companies of course - but how would one set this up, to avoid detection from those 3 mediums, of course this threads only intention is to discuss this matter, in theory.

Want the bottom line? If they WANT to catch you, they will. Private proxies are not shit, they won't protect you, your talking about tunneling your traffic though a network of proxies, not worth the hassle.

Your talking about webhosting, that's nothing, unless of course your going to hack the fbi though your webhosting account.

Alex is right. And it's easier for authorities to follow the money trial to you then to try to subpoena an offshore datacenter. If your moving money around, becoming completely anonymous is next to impossible..

Your ISP will keep the logs of where you connect to, forever, so the answer to your question, forever.

webdesign said:

True. What about transferring it though some gambling sites, have two accounts.. might make it a little bit harder to track? Deposit into one, withdraw from the other.

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Yea this is defiantly the type of stuff you can do to make the trail harder to follow. Maybe transfer the money to a epassporte account that is linked to a crack heads credit card. Withdraw from an atm with your electron visa that was delivered to the crack heads house while wearing a baseball cap and a fake mustache

Alex Brooks said:

Your ISP will keep the logs of where you connect to, forever, so the answer to your question, forever.

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This is an interesting topic. I'm clueless to UK laws, but I thought I read somewhere that in Canada privacy regulation require ISPs to delete logs and personal information after a certain amount of time (I can't remember how long exactly) unless a warrant requires them to keep it. I believe that they also must delete any information tied to your account if you deactivate it. I could be mistaken though, as there have been recent talk about changing internet surveillance/privacy laws that has free-speech advocates fuming here (I should really keep up on this stuff better).

Grizzy said:

Yea this is defiantly the type of stuff you can do to make the trail harder to follow. Maybe transfer the money to a epassporte account that is linked to a crack heads credit card. Withdraw from an atm with your electron visa that was delivered to the crack heads house while wearing a baseball cap and a fake mustache

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Now there's a damn good plan.

Grizzy said:

This is an interesting topic. I'm clueless to UK laws, but I thought I read somewhere that in Canada privacy regulation require ISPs to delete logs and personal information after a certain amount of time (I can't remember how long exactly) unless a warrant requires them to keep it. I believe that they also must delete any information tied to your account if you deactivate it. I could be mistaken though, as there have been recent talk about changing internet surveillance/privacy laws that has free-speech advocates fuming here (I should really keep up on this stuff better).

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I know for online businesses in the UK it's illegal for companies to hold your data for something like 3 years without your consent. I'm sure the law with ISP's however, is different? They must have some pretty mad ass datacenters to keep track of every url visited for every customer - I've herd story's of them tracking every email sent and received in the UK, pretty sure I've read a news article on it too, can't seem to find it though.

Free wifi always seems to be the absolute best option to "try" to stay hidden

In regards to the funds. There are a ton of ways around the whole money tracing thing. I used to investigate bank fraud for one of the major Canadian banks.

Moving money around is entirely too easy.

Im against it but I will tell you that it is not entirely impossible. In fact it is all too easy when you know how to do it.

I'll just say that it will open you up to a potential of "a lot" trouble if its not done well.

Your end product needs to be "cash in hand" out of a bank and untracable to yourself. Once its out of the bank, unless your on a camera.. then its basicly untracable.

This is one of the main authority sites on anonymity. It's geared towards selling it to you, but there's still some good information on here:

To stay completely anonymous you need a high security anonymity network.
Tor is free and offers that
Cloakfish is commercial and based on Tor to giv higher performance and IP by location choices

If you just need plain anonymity and nothing else take a look at Tor.
Almost all commercial solutions do not provide real anonymity, don't trust them.
Private proxies are in general no true anonymous proxies, you usually have logs on the server, payment details and often dedicated IPs. These are good for many purposes but not to be anonymous from authorities.

Hi justone,

Can you rate cloakfish base on:

1. Support
2. Is it fast
3. Level of anon

Because I stumble on limeproxies.com but their support rates 1 out of 5 for me. After the payment they simply did not answer me back about my queries. They only gave me 5 proxies instead of 10 for $50.

Please help I really need descent proxy for marketing campaign.

Thanks in advance.

Maybe you did not ask yourself the question if you really have to be fbi-safe anonymous?
If you are not planning to promote/make money from illegal stuff like the absolute no-go childporn, carding, etc, you probably don't need to. But what you maybe need and what is highly recommended: just don't do it from your home connection. Buy a cheap offshore vps. And think about that: the track to you is not only your ip, but also the cash-flow to your bank account. If you are doing illegal [something I would not dare to do] stuff (by law), the last point matters.

Here's the thing about staying completely anonymous - you would need to disconnect yourself from the grid that are already apart of; every site you've ever logged into and every system you've ever used contains a bit of what we call your online identity and there is very little you can do to avoid it for even if you try and separate yourself from it running into it again will just make your new IP or data part of your Identity. After studying this for a few years I began to find that many data agencies have simple work arounds for high anonymity proxies, networks, tors, etc. It used to be a common myth that behind a series of proxies you'd be safe, but people forget online records, NIC numbers, purchase numbers, and other identifiers. Here is the only method I have been able to develop that allows you to be perfectly cloaked - and even then it is not advisable that you re-use this method without re-starting.

1. Buy a cheap mini-laptop. Do NOT use any payment method other than cash.

2. Remove the hard-drive and onboard NIC card (as it contains a MAC address often filed with your registry purchase number)

3. Get any form of Linux Live CD (this will run from your RAM and the CD)

4. Get an external USB Wifi device to connect to the internet. Do NOT use any payment method other than cash. Otherwise you risk sales numbers (often attached to manufacture numbers which are in-turn attached to NIC numbers) being attached to your name in someway.

5. Go to a coffee shop with FREE public wifi.

6. Remain outside the place so that there is no visual records of your entry.

7. If you are doing something highly illegal which I do not condone or support then I would suggest this location to be at least an hour away from your location and you should not spend more than 15 minutes in that location.

8. Do NOT log into any account you have ever made, do NOT go to any site you own, basically make no interactions with your real self.

9. Turn off computer. All on board records are gone.

10. Destroy external USB device - NIC numbers can only be spoofed not changed that is the only remaining link.

11. (optional) you may destroy the laptop if you wish - do not make a sale of a laptop in this state as that is creating a record of who owned it once it changed hands

Now with that method I suggest you could register the domain, and the host, getting the payment to them is tricky. Your best bet would be to (and I dont codone this due to the illegal nature of it) use a fake alias to register a pre-paid visa card purcahsed at walmart (USING CASH) and registered with your new fake MAC and IP. Make the payments burn the card. Never log on the account again.

Please Note: I do not condone, support, encourage, or hope to show individuals way to mask, commit, better, or in anyway support any form of illegal action. The matters of hiding ones identity I have placed here for educational purposes only, in an attempt to give individuals a right to privacy that they are entitled to in most countries. The actions carried out by members of BHW or any other place this tutorial may end up are strictly and fully their responsibility alone it is in the sole discretion of the individual how they use such actions.

Cheers,
Winchester

and yes do not forget to use mask at your face while doing deals in 'cash' .
pre-paid card is the way instead of paypal.
you need to keep your position changing cause i think if google involved in it then satellite cameras are approaching to you.

thank you very much Winchester. nice post.

~913

anil2006 said:

and yes do not forget to use mask at your face while doing deals in 'cash' .
pre-paid card is the way instead of paypal.
you need to keep your position changing cause i think if google involved in it then satellite cameras are approaching to you.

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First of there is no reason to wear a mask but believe it or not those levels of precautions are required if you really want to stay fully hidden. If you are doing something highly illegal and someone wants to find you they can use purchase registries to find you.

Also your point about the position while ludicrous is why I explained to stay outside the place you connect to the wifi from, it can be triangulated to that location and time stamps from online records can be used to check in store cameras.

This isn't a guide for someone like you who probably makes pennies online doing a tiny bit of blackhat stuff - this is for the ones who are reeling it in big time and doing stuff that they NEED an off-shore server for and the ability to truly cover there ass. So stop your sarcastic remarks and dive into the big leagues before mocking someone who knows what he is talking about. I have credentials in Network Security from Cisco I know the harsh reality of trying to keep your online identity hidden.

Cheers,
Winchester.

Just adding one possible extra safeguard to those creating faux IDs for accounts as part of a plan to retain privacy. Two considerations are that 1) most of these web site parties do not have the right to demand you give up your real ID in the first place, and 2) there is a view that if you formally report to appropriate parties (e.g., the IRS) that you are using aliases in financial activity, and info in connection with with the pseudonym is religious and political belief that are not factual or actionable as per federal rules of evidence, you cannot be held liable for submitting false information. The declaration of the use of pseudonym in this manner shields you from charges of fraud. More info in the below document:

zebrahat said:

Just adding one possible extra safeguard to those creating faux IDs for accounts as part of a plan to retain privacy. Two considerations are that 1) most of these web site parties do not have the right to demand you give up your real ID in the first place, and 2) there is a view that if you formally report to appropriate parties (e.g., the IRS) that you are using aliases in financial activity, and info in connection with with the pseudonym is religious and political belief that are not factual or actionable as per federal rules of evidence, you cannot be held liable for submitting false information. The declaration of the use of pseudonym in this manner shields you from charges of fraud. More info in the below document:

Code:

http://sedm.org/Forms/Tax/Withholding/NotOfPseudonym.pdf

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Very true - I had considered including this but then I came to the realization if you were discovered chances are name fraud is the least of your worries because if they are able to connect your actions to your name anyway (which is the only case you would need to argue this clause) then they have already caught you on any other action you wanted to stay anonymous for - of course this is all for educational and theoretical purposes though so it matters not and you still raise a very valid point