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Some Suggestions as we head into 2014…

Discussion in 'Forum Suggestions & Feedback' started by netmoney1, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. netmoney1

    netmoney1 Executive VIP

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    I have been going back and forth recently about whether or not to post this, but after seeing a post of mine deleted that brought up a legit concern I decided to put this all down and lay out some suggestions that I think can help benefit this forum.

    FIRST?please do not post nonsense in this thread. This is meant to spark constructive conversation, suggestions and ideas all with one goal ? to continue to improve the quality of BHW.

    I?m just going to dive into some suggestions?

    #1) Regulation on Market Place Thread Titles/Descriptions/Claims

    Ok, I get it that the title is a selling point and done to get a good CTR. BUT there is no reason why sellers should be able to post pure BS. While everyone is an adult and should use common sense, what happens when someone comes here and makes a purchase based on solely what he or she reads.

    Now, take this:

    Code:
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/seo-link-building/632583-pr5-pr8-backlinks-approved-google-penguin-hummingbird-money-back-guarantee.html
    The title of the sales thread is:

    ?PR5-PR8 Backlinks Approved by Google Penguin & Hummingbird With Money Back Guarantee?

    The money back guarantee isn?t a problem ? if that seller wants to offer that then fine. BUT?the ?Approved by Google Penguin & Hummingbird? is comical and I am very surprise that this was approved like this. I even left a comment on the sales thread but it was deleted along with others by people that clearly saw something wrong with such a deceptive title.

    While some may say ?well you need to use common sense? ? I agree, BUT the sad fact is that a large majority of people lack what we call common sense. Also, someone new to IM may see that and think ?wow, approved by Google ? I?ll def order this?

    We know that NOBODY can guarantee rankings or results?and we sure as hell know that Google doesn?t approve services. I was really waiting to see a Matt Cutts tweet about this one, because I would be willing to bet they have and continue to have a good laugh about it.

    I think a more careful review of titles and sales page claims will benefit the forum, and not only the BHW members but those that come here and order services that are not members. The press release service that my company offers here is a prime example. I can tell you that the majority of orders on a daily basis are from people that are not even members here.

    #2) Raise Market Place Thread Prices and/or Implement Security Deposits

    $30 is ridiculously low. There is a lot of money to be made in the market place and basically anyone with $97 for a JR VIP membership and $30 for the thread fee can start a service. There has been an increased number of extremely low quality services recently.

    Again, people will say to weed through and find the gems. I think it would benefit everyone if the focus went back to quality over quantity. Raise the price for a thread to $500 ? I know many will say ?well this prevents a lot of people from launching a service? ? but the truth of the matter is this: if someone doesn?t have $500 then they should not be going into business. The market place thread owners are essentially business owners. They provide a service. Whether or not they have an actual business, they are now what I would consider to be a ?business owner? based just on the volume of eyes and traffic in the market place.

    This rolls into my next point. So many shit list threads have popped up recently because of refund issues. The accused pops in the thread and says, ?I will process it on (insert bs date)? and then never shows again and is banned. This is because they don?t have the money to issue the refund.

    Many service providers are not financially sound enough to have a thread. Imagine walking into Target or Macy?s and going up to the register and asking for a refund and them saying, ?Oh we will do it in 15 days ? we are waiting for some funds to clear because we don?t have any to give you right now.? If anyone was given that response by a retailer they would think they were insane.

    Now, there will be people who say well the forum makes their money on threads. Each one at $30 a pop isn?t a huge stack of cash. The larger fee will easily make up for it and it will help raise the overall quality. Some may complain about the price hike, BUT I can guarantee those that provide a really good service would be all for it.

    Another idea would be to have a $500 security deposit held by a third party while the service thread is live. Returned when the thread/service is closed after a specific number of days. This way BHW isn?t directly holding the funds and they are released when both parties agree. This would prevent sellers from promising to pay back and refund ?when they have money? and then disappearing.

    Yes, the raise in price and a deposit are more hoops to jump through, but it would help improve the quality. I can guarantee some of the lower quality services would not put up the $$$. It just helps improve the quality, which in turns help to ATTRACT quality to the forum.

    #3) Hire a Freelancer ? Move To JR VIP

    Lots of SL threads related to hire a freelancer. Freelancers that patrol that section can pick up some SWEET deals and make money. Why not make them pay up in order to access that info? Also, people looking to hire someone should have to pay to access it as well. They can save a ton of money so $97 is a small investment for them to be able to have access to freelancers here.

    Will this cut some out? Sure, but do the mods want to continue to monitor and police SL threads about people sending $10 via PayPal as a gift to someone that promised them a 10 page ecommerce website?

    Also, this will increase the JR VIP memberships and make that section more active. More revenue for the forum and less SL complaints and crap for mods to clean up.

    #4) Drop Shipping & Wholesale Hookups ? Move To JR VIP

    This section of the forum is a clusterfu#k of scammers. Sure there might be some legit people in there trying to make a buck, but as mentioned before they should pay up in order to sell. It doesn?t matter if they are selling $25 xbox codes or $1,000 items. Pay up.

    This also makes it very clear as to who can sell/offer services on BHW. You need to be Jr VIP ? no exceptions. Now it is crystal clear. This will also prevent a lot of fake accounts being set up in order to scam people for $5, $10 and $20 ? once they realize they need to upgrade they will quit and move on and infest somewhere else.

    Any legit seller will not balk at paying $97 in order to list their wholesale and drop shipping deals. Also, this will eliminate the huge number of people that mysteriously have warehouses full of the newest iPhones and game consoles when they are released at prices LOWER than big box retailers can purchase them from. Amazing ;)

    Also makes Jr VIP more active and eliminates a lot of scams.

    CLOSING

    I really think focusing on QUALITY will really help keep the forum active with the right kind of discussion.
     
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  2. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Absolutely, agree with all your points.
    I really hope that the powers that be, take some notice, as something needs to done.
    Implementing these ideas, SHOULD make the Mods work easier AND improve the forum.
     
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  3. CosmicSoundz

    CosmicSoundz BANNED BANNED

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    100000000000%%%%% agree.

    Although if this happens what will we have to joke about on skype?
     
  4. Conor

    Conor Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Great suggestions, especially 3 and 4. I never understood why the dropshipper section was free to post in, whilst the rest of the marketplace was not.

    You could expand the same concept and make the JV section for JR Vip only as well, if it isn't already, I didn't double check.
     
  5. Veyron

    Veyron BANNED BANNED

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    Thanks NetMoney1 for taking the time to notice potential problems and issues on the forum. While I feel they're legitimate concerns, I'm sure these points has been at least considered or thought of by the forum Moderators, Administrators & owner(s) and feel confident that these changes would have been or will be made if they deem them important enough to implement. I think each point you made was important and agree with you on a number of aspects. One thing particularly I think should be changed that you brought up is the titles of the service(s) listed in the BST.

    I've seen a ton of BST's lately with these types of titles that are deceptive and it's too bad that so many people are naïve when it comes to this. But, as previously mentioned by Moderators, there job is to test and try the service before approving it and that's what they do. They currently don't have the man power to make changes/alterations on every BST Title or to fully test the legitimacy & results of a particular service.

    This is why when it comes down to it at the end of the day, the safety & satisfaction of a service buyer really comes down to common sense, and due diligence on the service and the seller.

    By no means am I going against the points you brought up, but, these are some of the things that need to be considered as well. I'll continue checking back as I'd like to see the opinions of others on this as well.

    Great post and I completely agree with you on the issues you brought up! :)

    Veyron
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  6. Ste Fishkin

    Ste Fishkin "I'm watching you.." - Apricot Jr. VIP Premium Member UnGagged Attendee

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    I agree.

    Some of the claims in BST are a joke. I avoid it at all cost because I know i would troll hard if I let myself, and I cannot stop
     
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  7. dannym954

    dannym954 Regular Member

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    You'll be hard pressed to find someone who disagrees with any of what you just said. Adding my vote.
     
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  8. lmxftw

    lmxftw BANNED BANNED

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    while I somewhat agree with you on some points I disagree on making the Hire a Freelancer section Jr. VIP exclusive. It will only solve the scamming problem to a degree where people looking for some quick, cheap labor won't find any. Investing 100$ on a Jr. VIP to scam someone out of 1000$ is still pretty good ROI.

    Best thing for that section is an escrow system overlooked by a mod on a 10% fee that goes to BHW.



    100$ of service needed ? 90$ goes to the provider, 10$ to BHW.

    also marketplace threads should really be looked into more thoroughly since some sales copies really offer you some magical beans with the golden goose at the end of the bean stalk but I don't think they should cost 500$ with a 500$ deposit... it's not about starting a business ... if I have a quick method of earning a quick buck, through a real method, no scams ... I shouldn't have to pay 1000$ upfront to earn 300$. Take IamNRE's case where he "sold" a WSO for a 1$/month hosting plan ... there's just a need of better testing, proof reading and, I will be hated for this, more mods... solid mods. Lines like 'service approved. OP over delivered' are the death of the marketplace IMHO... users won't buy until they see reviews, seller gets sad because users won't buy, fucks up the service and doesn't refund on a SL because he's already given up on his service...
     
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    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  9. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    I have re-read the OP 3 times and can see NO negatives, only an improved forum.
    I really hope this is given some SERIOUS consideration.
     
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  10. YouFeelMeDawg?

    YouFeelMeDawg? BANNED BANNED

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    I agree 62.5% with all of your 4 points, here is why.


    Point 1: I agree 100% on this point(25% out of 100%)
    I couldn't agree more on this, you hit every single point and this requires the greatest urgency.


    Point 2:I agree 50% on this point(37.5% out of 100%)
    The only thing is that everyone here is talking about the majority of the BST threads that are aimed at SEO services. What about software? Not once in your thread did you talk about anything about the BST regarding software.

    I can tell you straight up, I wouldn't get a Jr.VIP thread unless I was making a software product and selling it on the BST market. I believe more in sharing information and quality content than reciting the whole "buying jr.vip makes this forum better" cliche.This forum thrives on QUALITY CONTENT and information, not on JR.VIP subscriptions.

    Putting a 500 dollar deposit for a software product created by 1 developer is definitely a lot of money. I wouldn't be able to afford something like that on top of a sales thread, support, programming time that it takes into developing a REAL professional product.

    I reckon you are not a programmer that is why your thread comes out very bias without even considering the small minority of BST sellers who have successful black hat software here.You are forgetting that without their important contributions to this forum by providing QUALITY software we wouldn't be where we are now.

    500 dollars is definitely going to cause software to rise up through the roof if that was ever implemented.

    Now I do agree completely on the whole SEO services needs to be looked at more carefully, but SOFTWARE should be exempted from this,unless they are tested thoroughly by someone that CODES or knows his bh tools like the back of his hand.

    Point 3: I agree 0% on this point(37.5% out of 100%)
    You have to understand that you are on the top %.00001 of all Im'ers that roam this forum. What to you might seem like not much(a jr vip subscription) to many others is ALOT!!!(not talking specifically me but from other ppl that are starting out)

    Last time I actually read a thread of someone who was making 30 dollars a week average from starting at the bottom doing those Hire a Freelancer jobs here, that person doesn't have a jr.vip subscription.

    I believe we should be looking this from the point of the 99% , those who are new to this world of IM, the ones that are barely scraping it by. Do you think they are going to want to afford 97 dollars just to get jobs in the Hire a Freelancer place. On top of that, do you realize that the majority of people who post in the Hire a Freelancer are not posting expensive jobs but simple jobs or jobs that won't be higher than 300-400 dollar range almost ever(thats on the high upper range). Seems pretty stupid to pay 97 dollars when you want a quick 10-20 dollar jobs.

    Mods get a lot of other perks for volunteering their time to this forum, and dealing with those 10 dollar shit list threads is one of those other things they have to do in order to get those other perks. You can't just have all benefits without any responsibilities.


    Point 4: I agree 100% on this point(62.5% out of 100%)
    This is perhaps one of the points that I agree more than any of the 4. It is pretty evident that a lot of people have been seen selling xbox,netflix, even some bulk iphones which clearly raised a lot of eyebrows. A lot of those eyebrows, were unfortunate victims that fell for those scams and purchase from the scammers who were obviously fly-by-night scammers.
    I don't see why this area hasn't required atleast Jr.vip to post here, since everyone who has a bst thread requires a jr.vip subscription + 30 dollars.

    Conclusion:

    97 dollars is not a small investment, to you it might be but not for a lot of people here.
    Plus on top of that, this is a pretty bias thread considering everyone who has posted here is a Jr.vip(except for that troll who was a jr.vip but will upgrade again eventually).

    Plus side effects of requiring JR.VIP subscriptions on almost everything here will seriously reduce the number of impressions this forum gets and that would not be good for those buying $$$$ ad banners.
     
  11. netmoney1

    netmoney1 Executive VIP

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    Bias? Not really....did you see how many social media "pannels" popped up and people got taken by? You have to look at it this way...$500 (and that is just a number for discussion sake) is not a lot to get access to buyers for 12 months. Break that down into 12 months...that is LESS THAN $42 a month. Where else could anyone, be it a SEO provider or a software developer get that much traffic and exposure for under $42 a month? Nowhere. Again, this is just discussion...and to say it is bias because only Jr VIPS replied makes no sense. Anyone is welcome to post. The thread is new. Give it some time.
     
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  12. t0mmy

    t0mmy Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Agree 110% with every point you have made here, I've been saying this for a long time and have had run ins with certain individuals because of my stance on cutting the bullshit claims and what are actually lies, these lies are there to trick people into buying, this in my opinion is as bad as theft! Too much bullshit claims getting approved day in and day out in the market place.

    I remember a time when bullshit threads would have never been approved, now it seems as if anything and everything is getting allowed to run so long as they provide a review copy they get approved. Seems like no attention is paid to the lies they may have in their sales copy (prime example in the OP).

    Raise the price deffinitley, weed out the crap and stop the scammers. Totally behind everything you've said here and then some!
     
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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  13. YouFeelMeDawg?

    YouFeelMeDawg? BANNED BANNED

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    Really!?By the way this is not what I meant by software as there is clearly a distinction that you probably don't see or you missed.

    Software: Nohandseo, GSE , The Blaster family(MassVideoBlaster, Pin Blaster)

    By the same token we can call everything that has an online panel a software product then since a lot of seo services here have panels(what about BassTrackerBoats service is that a software too because it has a panel)
    Panels are not software but a service, you are not really providing a software product but just a service.

    Unless those 500 dollars are actually broken into 12 payments of 42 dollars, then I can sort of agree with you but its not the same when you have to pay 42 dollars a month every month than when you have to cop it all for the next 12 months.

    You are right, I should give it some time to wait for other non-jr.vip members have to say about this, because so far I have only heard from those that are jr.vip.
     
  14. dannym954

    dannym954 Regular Member

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    I would love to see a mod in here, mostly because whilst i fully support all statements made by the OP, it's always nice to see a full on discussion.

    In my opinion there is absolutely no other way that a "conclusion" can be reached.
     
  15. funkybunker

    funkybunker Supreme Member

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    Just wait until my thread gets approved, then raise the price. LOL

    But in all seriousness I agree with increasing rates to prevent shitty service, so customers adapt to better providers & a company like mine that charges what many call a lot, won't seem out of place.
    Also this makes the approval FAR faster because our Mods won't have those 50 crap threads to sift through.
    Nice ideas netmoney1.
     
  16. PandaDomo

    PandaDomo Senior Member

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    I kind of feel that whoever opens a BST should have fluent English or at least have their response team have fluent English...

    I don't mean to be racist or anything, but it's very, very frustrating when I have a concern with something and try to contact them for a simple fix or if I have a simple question, but they completely misunderstand what I say and then it becomes a huge ordeal to explain what I need done.

    I'm not sure if anybody else has this issue or feels it is one, but I would like to avoid spending 30mins on Skype longer than I have to for what should be a quick fix.

    Oh yeah, and I think people shouldn't be allowed to use the word "Guaranteed", "High PR/PR 3+", "Dominate #1/First Page" and other terms like those, it's completely misleading. Like what the fuck is that supposed to mean? If your service doesn't guarantee me onto the first page or something, I get a full refund? I mean like I understand that there's no guarantees in SEO and the like, but it's just not cool to be able to use those types of claims without being able to back it up 100%. I don't like when they say "High PR" or whatever either when they mean root domain. I don't think they should be allowed to use those high PR-type claims unless the page it's placed on is actually of that PR.

    It's probably not that big of a deal and is more of a personal irksome thing I suppose, but it shouldn't be too difficult to remedy.
     
  17. netmoney1

    netmoney1 Executive VIP

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    I know what you meant. I simply used that as an example of a non seo service that presented issues recently. Anyone that sells a product or service falls under it. This is a platform to reach a huge number of clients. Do you really think software is at a disadvantage? They still make money, and I'm sure they would still turn a nice ROI.

    Lets take 2 providers that sell "widgets". One company is advertising and it costs them $100 a month. The other company then goes to the advertiser and says, "I can't afford $100 a month - so you should let me advertise for 50 cents." - Doesn't work that way. The point is that something needs to be done to improve the quality and this is simply a suggestion.

    Again, it comes down to being in a position to be able to offer a product or service. $500 is not a lot of money compared to the possible return. When people start services with no financial backing etc then we run into issues as mentioned. Providers not delivering...not issuing refunds...etc.

    Also, that $500 is an imaginary number for discussion sake.
     
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  18. proxygo

    proxygo Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    i was just thinking netmoney had the price of sales thread been 500$
    i would have been screwed back in 2008, all the money i made to pay my dogs
    cancer bills over 2 yrs would never have happened - the extra 2 yrs life this
    service payed for against your 500$ for an advert on this i disagree .
    but im looking at that from 2008 - 2010 only when i was new

    dropshipping / freelancer even though i agree with you move it
    due diligence comes into play - if anyone is bumb enough to buy stuff
    in the dropship from a new member with 1 post and a skype name that
    has 0 google history you all deserve what u get.

    i gotta be careful here i get what your saying if we can see its bullshit
    why was it approved -- i wont go further as that questions the market place mods
    hay its there call what goes live there judgement based on what they see.
    thing is 5 people can read a post and they all see something different.

    but recently the focus has been a shit load of vips banned for abuse
    scams never seen so many fall in 2013
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  19. elschlongo

    elschlongo Junior Member

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    yes, yes, yes, and yes. I agree with everything that you've said here netmoney1.

    I for one just skip over the offers in the BST section that seem too good to be true.

    If a seller of a service (or software) can't pony up that much money, how effective can their service or software be? I mean, the point of selling this stuff is to make money off from the services right? If they can't do that with their own product, why should I trust to make anything from their service?

    Throw a huge price tag on it to weed out those shitty services, but also raise the timeframe on how long someone can go from signing up with the forum and when they can sell. I don't know how many new accounts I've seen recently that go through the same process. Sign up, throw out a useful post, inflate post count, apply for BST 3 months later. Those BSTs are the ones I really pass on because that screams "FORMER BANNED USER - BEWARE".

    Moving all of those parts to JRVIP could certainly weed out a ton of issues. I've never been a JRVIP, but would have more of an incentive to be one.
     
  20. netmoney1

    netmoney1 Executive VIP

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    Yeah, the $500 is just a number for discussion sake.

    I also agree that people are out of their mind if they buy something from a brand new person, etc - maybe not allow those in the SL section - but then again if they aren't called out those people will continue to circle around looking for new blood. I think letting only those that are JR VIP may eliminate a lot of that. It isn't even just about spending $97 - it is also the fact that they will have been around for a few months and have 100 quality posts. The odds of someone cultivating an account for that long and then spending money to rip people off is a lot less.

    Again, just some suggestions to get some discussion going. All in the name of improving quality.