Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by ApproximateVelocity, Sep 7, 2013.
What do you guys think. Yes, No, Maybe So. We're all entrepreneurs anyway.
In Australia minimum wage is $16.37 for adult.
I think it depends on what kind of job it is. Then again, unions can pretty much raise minimum wage in some jobs...
it depends on what kind of job it is... But in India daily expenses are increased bit more, so answer is "may be"
A lot of people on my facebook page are talking about raising the minimum wage for fast food workers and people that work at big box stores like Wal Mart and Target.
i say cut the minimum wage altogether. Let the marketplace decide, and the people who work in that marketplace decide how much they are worth. Not the government. Inflation rises faster, when government gets involved.
If you need the government to set your minimum worth, then you aren't working hard enough to build your skill set, and value in the marketplace.
If the minimum wage increased too much, so would the cost of pretty much everything else to account for it..
$16.37 might be the minimum wage in Australia.. but the cost of living is a lot more there (compared to England anyway)
Very complicated subject and probably varies greatly from country to country..
And i hate politics!
Pay a man what he is worth.
Incent him he will work harder.
Very interesting perspective. Pay a man what he's worth. Do you believe that we as a society should create a "social safety net" for the poor?
I hate getting involved here on BHW in what is basically a political discussion but the answer is no. I totally understand how impossible it is to live on what the current minimum wage is but this has to be put into perspective. First of all, where does this arbitrary figure of $15/hour come from? Why not $13? Why not $25? Seriously, $15/hour is about 30 grand a year and depending on where you live in the US that could be a sort of livable wage or it could still be a shit wage. Try living in LA or SF or NYC on $15/hour. Conversely, you could probably hang in there if you were living in Little Rock.
Also, my wife works for a medical tech company in a high level exec position. There are people in her department that have a helluva lot more responsibility than a fucking burger flipper or a walmart checker and they are making about $18/hour. I mean seriously, 30 grand a year to serve french fries?
Another thing, yeah I kind of agree with the argument that McDonalds' revenues are in the billions but correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking that if the min wage goes up to $15/hour it doesn't affect the corporation, it only affects the franchise owner.
Also, and I'm not totally anti-union but this is nothing but a union tactic. My understanding is that most of those people who were "protesting" were brought in to do so by union organizers. They were not fast food workers. <Edit, to make my point>: Their purpose is to recruit new members. Unions are dying in the US. Without new members they cannot survive. Hence, the union execs can't make their UBER salaries.
Look, when I was a kid, KIDS worked these jobs. I get it that things have changed drastically and people do whatever they can to survive. If an unemployed 40 year old woman with 2 kids needs any kind of work to survive, yeah she'll take that min wage job. But it doesn't mean the min wage should be doubled necessarily.
And lastly, my entire theory if you will on all of this is this and always has been: You want to NOT be poor? STOP HAVING CHILDREN. I have seen this first hand with family members. They don't have a fucking pot to piss in but they sure as fuck have this "need" to build a family. Here's a couple tips: If you can barely afford to feed you and your wife, or yourself, it won't get any better trying to feed babies. Also, if you have to "wait until I get paid" to go out to eat, YOU CAN'T EVER AFFORD TO GO OUT TO EAT.. This is really the crux of it all.
So people have even less motivation to accomplish anything useful in their life?
I assume you're talking about the US. There's no way in hell that's doable - companies wouldn't be able to pay minimum wage workers(or won't want to) and there would be a lot of lay offs.
I'd rather support raising the minimum wage in countries such as China as Bangladesh, where it sometimes isn't even $.5 per hour. Want to get a car? You will need to work a couple of years for a crappy one, instead of have your parents buy one for you when you haven't even turned 18 yet. The US is doing just fine. Don't overestimate yourselves.
One thing many people miss is that enforcing minimum wages causes structural (read: permanent) unemployment, because minimum wages make low value work illegal. That causes both the employer & the employee to lose. The employer won't get the benefit of the low cost employee 's work and the low cost employee will lose his job, since the employer will go to jail if he keeps employing him or suffer loses if he increases the wage.
In short: Minimum wage laws benefit those who get to keep their jobs at the expense of those who get to lose theirs & the cost of reduced productivity in the economy (since jobs have been lost) which means more lay offs eventually.
The question of minimum wage varies from country to country. Personally I pay staff well and offer big incentives if they can create wealth. If a staff member can bring in $500 worth of business that wasnt there yesterday and did it through their own initiative then they get a big kickback.
Minimum wage in the UK is £6.30 for a grown adult. In most big cities it would cost you £2 and hour just to park your car. There are benefits available for being unemployed and in the UK the handout is not much less than a working wage.
There are also lots of floating/unfixed contracts legally knocking about in the market where people are essentially working day to day with no guaranteed weekly hours.
So call me a champagne socialist but I believe people are a countries greatest asset and sometimes those people need to be insentiveized for them to show how great they can be. Pushing people into the dirt to pay them a pittance only breaks spirits and creates a climate of hopelessness.
In theory I dont actually have a problem with a minimum wage to pay to school leavers etc but I do have a problem when big companies bend the rules to keep large amounts of employees on minimum wage for as long as they can.
This strategy to increase minimum wage will backfire for the group that's pushing it. While I do believe people should have a decent working wage, there are also other variables that will keep people asking for more. Main point being...those that will always be living beyond their means.
This is basic economics, raising the minimum wage will have several "unintended" consequences. Unemployment will rise, especially among the young, and the unskilled. Income tax "revenues" to the government will drop, because there will be more under-the-table "black market" employment. Also prices in general will rise, one to off set the additional cost of labor, two because cost per output will rise, and three because those that have jobs will be willing to pay more.
The very people that minimum wages are supposed to help are always the ones that are hurt the most. It also shrinks the middle class because those that are in the bottom of middle class now simply join the poor, because their wages will seldom rise at the same rate as those below them, thus there purchasing power drops.
I personally agree that the minimum wage should be abolished. This would allow more people to have jobs, and it would allow prices to drop. Granted that today $0.30 an hour sounds very low, but if a loaf of bread only cost $.05 that persons purchasing power would be much better.
Just my thoughts.
I believe in appropriate wages, whatever the hell that means(sounds like a parent giving an allowance...), but disagree with an enforced minimum wage. That being said, I think receiving a minimum wage is a great indicator of "you are not in control of your life or future"
Should it instead be replaced with an average unskilled worker wage index? Or a by-industry average of unskilled labor?
I can't think of a career or profession that doesn't have average salaries, which is kind of a mental minimum wage, so why not extend that to low-level jobs too?
Shouldn't low-level employees have an idea what others make in their area and field so they can present a counter, or look for jobs that pay better than average, which will naturally increase the average? edit: sorry for so many questions.
Truer words have never been spoken. Then an argument could be "yeah but some of us are less fortunate than others," which many people say despite it being the dumbest argument I've ever heard in my life. Anyone, especially in America, has the opportunity to AT LEAST end up in a job nailing them way over minimum wage. Only those who are lazy or have no ambition need minimum wage to support their pathetic lives.
Not sure if minimum wage should be increased to $15, but there should be a minimum wage
The reason for a minimum wage, is to prevent the rich from driving wages so low that their workers
would be better off if they where slaves.
At least if your a slave your owner has the responsibilty to make sure you are fed properly
otherwise you would have no value to him,
While as a freeman your boss can just replace you with somebody cheaper and better fed.
Lower wages would then mean the government would have to step in and make up the difference
This would lead to more blackmarket workers, less income for the government
Higher taxes, which would hurt the middle class.
The rich will always find ways to pay less while the poor and middle classes carry the tax burden
Withour minimum wage the poor would get poorer
the middle classes salaries will also start to drop.
Businesses will struggle as the poor have less money to spend
Bosses will cut salaries to try and give cheaper prices
Taxes will get higher to cover the extra costs.
The rich will continue to get richer and once they have squeezed every drop from an economy
they will move on
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