Shill Accounts/Orders - "please provide additional evidence"

Sephrata · Apr 18, 2020

I have just reported 10 accounts/posts on here for being shill accounts that are being used to post fake reviews, orders or just bump BSTs with "sample/code please" requests.

Within minutes, all 10 reports have been rejected with "please provide additional evidence". I am mildly frustrated that the reports have been immediately rejected without any form investigation.

These are accounts that post orders only in BSTs which are connected by the same BHW users. I've spent a lot of time (too much time in some cases) putting together the evidence to show the accounts are connected. I have never had a response to the reports of those specific users. In some cases, the users have continued their egregious behaviour and just created even more accounts with BSTs and the same leaky footprints.

The statistical probability of the same accounts posting orders only in the BSTs which are connected is remote to say the least. There are also similar traits as to the usernames and the style of writing.

Now we, as BHW users, are encouraged to report suspected fake/shill accounts. But what is the point in doing that when reports are instantly rejected for lack of evidence without any investigation? What is the evidence that is necessary or that we are expected to have here to make a report about a fake/shill account?

awesomewebsites · Apr 18, 2020

I am doubtful if the mods will discuss this in open.

Sephrata · Apr 18, 2020

krishnaverma said:
I am doubtful if the mods will discuss this in open.

It would be useful to know what we are expected to provide to report fake/shill accounts bearing in mind that we don't see IPs etc.

In the cases of Jr VIPs who are connected/shared/PBMs, I largely know what to provide.

awesomewebsites · Apr 18, 2020

Sephrata said:
It would be useful to know what we are expected to provide to report fake/shill accounts bearing in mind that we don't see IPs etc.

In the cases of Jr VIPs who are connected/shared/PBMs, I largely know what to provide.

What is PBM ?

William702 · Apr 18, 2020

Sephrata said:
I have just reported 10 accounts/posts on here for being shill accounts that are being used to post fake reviews, orders or just bump BSTs with "sample/code please" requests.

Within minutes, all 10 reports have been rejected with "please provide additional evidence". I am mildly frustrated that the reports have been immediately rejected without any form investigation.

These are accounts that post orders only in BSTs which are connected by the same BHW users. I've spent a lot of time (too much time in some cases) putting together the evidence to show the accounts are connected. I have never had a response to the reports of those specific users. In some cases, the users have continued their egregious behaviour and just created even more accounts with BSTs and the same leaky footprints.

The statistical probability of the same accounts posting orders only in the BSTs which are connected is remote to say the least. There are also similar traits as to the usernames and the style of writing.

Now we, as BHW users, are encouraged to report suspected fake/shill accounts. But what is the point in doing that when reports are instantly rejected for lack of evidence without any investigation? What is the evidence that is necessary or that we are expected to have here to make a report about a fake/shill account?

I know I speak for a lot of people when I say thank you. And I really mean that, I’m sure it is super frustrating given the effort you put in. But know that many of us totally appreciate it. I hope you make the info public in some way. I for one hope you don’t give up on it. And the way some things are left to go on or not taken care of on such a big site like this is shameful. That is the first time I have ever bashed how things are done on this site, I’m not blaming anyone specifically and many of those who care have their hands tied or no authority to do anything and are treated like mushrooms. There are a lot of bad apples that seem to get left in the basket leaving the rest to spoil.

Sephrata · Apr 18, 2020

krishnaverma said:
What is PBM ?

Previously banned member

William702 said:
I hope you make the info public in some way.

I am somewhat contemplating this, although I am cautious as @Zwielicht previously asked me not to (and he was completely right for doing so) because in some cases it shows how I've linked them and it just helps them, or others, avoid being picked up in the future

William702 · Apr 18, 2020

Sephrata said:
Previously banned member

I am somewhat contemplating this, although I am cautious as @Zwielicht previously asked me not to (and he was right for doing so) because in some cases it shows how I've linked them and it just helps them, or others, avoid being picked up in the future

good point, I’m sure them seeing what they are doing wrong could only benefit them. Not sure if this is a Napoleon quote but it was something along the lines of “don’t interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” I can’t count the amount of times I have seen mods thank you in normal threads for bringing something to light or on shit list threads for your assistance. So I’m sure they know you have no ulterior motives other than the protection of other members and straight up justice. Thank you again.

bartosimpsonio · Apr 18, 2020

Sephrata said:
It would be useful to know what we are expected to provide to report fake/shill accounts bearing in mind that we don't see IPs etc.

In the cases of Jr VIPs who are connected/shared/PBMs, I largely know what to provide.

Gotta provide some link between them. If the mods can't tell whether they're shills, how can they punish those accounts? Banning unfairly would drive people away from BHW.

To get rid of shills, gotta prove they're shills somehow.

Mods gotta be able to see same IP or something, but they're likely using proxies, vpn, etc the whole black hat arsenal.

Sephrata · Apr 18, 2020

bartosimpsonio said:
Gotta provide some link between them.

I've largely done that. Posting orders/reviews only in the BSTs of users I have connected (in one case a photo of them in the same office), that's usually fairly overwhelming evidence in itself.

bartosimpsonio said:
Mods gotta be able to see same IP or something, but they're likely using proxies, vpn, etc the whole black hat arsenal.

I am almost certain that the accounts I reported will have leaky footprints and the IPs should at least be looked at, but the reports were instantly rejected.

I think if you see a large number of orders/reviews in a BST from users using proxies/VPNs, then this itself should be a red flag that needs looking at in further detail.

Sephrata · Apr 18, 2020

Ok, let's put it another way...

@Big SEO, @Turbo SEO, @Digirulz and @Rankster - all of these accounts are connected. They will deny it, but they have leaky footprints.

If you then look at most of the orders placed on those BSTs, there are more than one of two similarities. One example is this account (I reported it for being a shill) - https://www.blackhatworld.com/members/clickzz.1331553/

I appreciate this bit isn't conclusive, but it's another clue:

Clickzz was last seen: Today at 9:03 AM
Turbo SEO was last seen: Today at 9:04 AM

Another example of a shill of a different group of accounts - https://www.blackhatworld.com/members/the-public-enemy.1244045/ (all of the orders placed are in linked accounts - Hello Neostrive guys!)

thescrrr · Apr 18, 2020

Just let it go, man.

davids355 · Apr 18, 2020

If they are shill accounts then please provide evidence of this. Then we can take action.

We don’t have the resources to investigate every account suspected of being a shill account - especially when it’s only that; a suspicion.

Mr Positive · Apr 18, 2020

@Sephrata it is quiet possible that they have been reported before and @Diamond Damien has already clarified if and whine they deem something Amis they seek the back end of the seller where all orders are proved and due to this nothing can be done. *not saying this has already been done here, but that’s one possible explanation*. Also why don’t you consider becoming a mod mate that’ll give you more access to admins and you can stop this in a better way

TheVigilante · Apr 18, 2020

Sephrata said:
Ok, let's put it another way...

@Big SEO, @Turbo SEO, @Digirulz and @Rankster - all of these accounts are connected. They will deny it, but they have leaky footprints.

If you then look at most of the orders placed on those BSTs, there are more than one of two similarities. One example is this account (I reported it for being a shill) - https://www.blackhatworld.com/members/clickzz.1331553/

I appreciate this bit isn't conclusive, but it's another clue:

Clickzz was last seen: Today at 9:03 AM
Turbo SEO was last seen: Today at 9:04 AM

Another example of a shill of a different group of accounts - https://www.blackhatworld.com/members/the-public-enemy.1244045/ (all of the orders placed are in linked accounts - Hello Neostrive guys!)

Those guys provide crap services anyway and any stupid guy who purchases from them deserves to be scammed period!

Sephrata · Apr 18, 2020

davids355 said:
If they are shill accounts then please provide evidence of this. Then we can take action.

We don’t have the resources to investigate every account suspected of being a shill account - especially when it’s only that; a suspicion.

Could you confirm what evidence you want please?

I provided evidence of the overall BSTs being linked (shared accounts) over a year ago in some cases. I still have had no responses to this and in the meantime, they have just created even more accounts with the same Paypal accounts...

davids355 · Apr 18, 2020

Sephrata said:
Could you confirm what evidence you want please?

I provided evidence of the overall BSTs being linked (shared accounts) over a year ago in some cases. I still have had no responses to this and in the meantime, they have just created even more accounts with the same Paypal accounts...

if they’re shill accounts created just to bump BSTs and they are in turn making fake orders, they’re rule breaks. If the shill accounts belong to the sellers and/or they’re being managed by the sellers, that’s also a rule break.

In order to take action we need proof of this.

Sephrata · Apr 18, 2020

davids355 said:
In order to take action we need proof of this.

We've always been encouraged to reported suspected accounts, but now the rules/procedure seems to have changed so that we are asked to provide evidence which you know we don't have.

I personally don't tend to report things willy nilly and for no reason and whilst I do appreciate mod time is limited, I do think my reports add value in the vast majority of cases.

I can give another example where I reported a shill account not so long ago and said the whole BST should be looked at. The report was rejected very quickly for lack of evidence, so I contacted a mod and said you might want to go through the BST as there are some very suspicious looking reviews/orders (my hunches are usually pretty good). Half the accounts posting in that BST have now been banned.

aristocratic · Apr 18, 2020

Really appreciate your effort. I hope mods will take action.

Inspired by your latest threads I decided to check the marketplace too. It's weekend though

Found a Seller that has created 6 accounts only to bump his BST.
No other activity, only asking for a discount on his BST, and what's more fun all fake accounts are following only 1 member (the Seller).

Reported all the accounts.
Hopefully, they will get banned and the seller gets warned!

proxygo · Apr 18, 2020

see it - report it - leave it -
you have done your part, if the mods see a link they will act
if they cant 100% find a link, they wont. job done.

onlinemarketer12 · Apr 18, 2020

proxygo said:
see it - report it - leave it -
you have done your part, if the mods see a link they will act
if they cant 100% find a link, they wont. job done.

Haven't they already closed the case for now ?

Shill Accounts/Orders - "please provide additional evidence"

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