shaving

That is ridiculous, this should be considered stealing.
 
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songer said:
We all know cpa companies shave, but how much? I decided to run a little experiment to find out. I chose 5 simple email submits from 5 different networks, each from unrelated advertisers. I put them on a landing page and promoted it for a week so it was receiving steady traffic and conversions.

I then selected 20 trustworthy people that I know, all adults, educated people who never filled out a CPA offer in their lives. I asked them to test my website for me and gave very specific instructions...they were each to fill out one of the five offers each day for five days. They used their real info, confirmed their email addresses when required, and logged in to the websites when applicable.

I had them send me proof such as URL of page after submitting, user names, passwords, etc., and asked for all of their IP addresses from whatsmyip.org so I could see how many of the conversions registered on my snapshot.

I waited an additional 5 days after their submissions to allow for tracking delays on the network's end.

Out of 100 fully completed offers from real people, people who live in California, Boston and everywhere in between. Not microworkers, not freelancers using proxies, not incentivized "guaranteed sign-ups" workers, real normal human beings that I know well (not even relatives), I got 37 recorded and accepted conversions.

That's a breathtaking 63% failure rate.

If you ever feel a twinge of guilt for using BH methods, remember this thread, get your head straight, and go make sure you get paid!
Click to expand...

It's interesting because about a month ago I faced the same problem...were those email submits you've tried?

because email submits are the hardest ones to convert on the backed for the advertiser...but still that's a whopping steal!

mobile ones are the best...maybe try those ;)
 
Also do you mind sharing the advertiser/offer you tested ?
It will help US alot, we can ignore highest shaver anyway. :)
 
I realized it was this bad a few months back. I have gone away from CPA all together. I cannot justify making someone that much money just to be turned around and bent over for how much they actually give you.
 
Damn, I thought it was prevalent in the industry, but the OP's numbers were staggering.
 
I am running a offer from last 1 month and my network shows only 6 conversions till date. But i have received more that 60 e-mails from customers who have purchased the product and want to cancel the order. How it could be possible when only 6 customers have purchased the product.
 
Very clever that you decided to research this, and that is indeed a lot of shaving. CPA really gets to you lately.
 
It would be very nice the CPA networks put an extra column next to epc and show the shaving ratio :) or shaving over network wide .. :) At least I would feel myself better , here is the problem not knowing how much you are shaved...
 
Oh for sure this is FRAUD nothing less. Unfortunately the Feds are just a pain in the ass of ordinary peeps, whose crime is actually making money - that's the crime.
Add to that the majority of federal agents are retarded and you get what you got - one seriously fckd up system and no choice other than to rip it all.
 
Taking into consideration the OP's set of data I'm now just wondering what the real value of 'Landing Page (LP) Optimization' is?

Just imagine yourself optimizing day-in-and-day-out, tweaking here and there in order for you to be able to see a higher CR ... well, the Networks will be more than happy, as it seems to be the case, to get even more leads that come from your optimization efforts ... for shaving them ... alone, you'll never be able to know what optimization measures were really effective ... (assuming OP's scenario as being realistic) ... :masked::masked::masked:

Please let me know if you see the whole LP optimization issue - again, assuming OP's data as being accurate - in a different manner!
 
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This thread makes me think of cpa beyond. Fuck cpa beyond they can shave my ball hair. Oh fuck cpa infinity leadbolt stronger ads and all other swagger jackin ass networks. Jackin cpa tanks layout and shit. fuck you guys. Snakes.
 
I was saying before that they all shave! And some idiot took like 10 of my Rep for saying that. This thread proves THEY ALL SHAVE! Some less then others but they all do this and really it's not the network it's sometimes your AM hijacking your conversions.
 
procam said:
I was saying before that they all shave! And some idiot took like 10 of my Rep for saying that. This thread proves THEY ALL SHAVE! Some less then others but they all do this and really it's not the network it's sometimes your AM hijacking your conversions.
Click to expand...

As an Affiliate Manager, I can confidently say that I've never "hijacked" a conversion. To be honest, with most tracking systems, I'm not even sure how it would be possible to do so. An AM makes money when you make money. It's in my best interest to make you happy with my network.

A lot of networks shave...but not all do. A lot of shaving is done at the advertiser level. They do call it scrubbing, and it's typically just a flat percentage rate to cover fraud/poor quality traffic/etc. It sucks, and everyone hates it...but it's part of the industry. It's similar to how you pay slightly higher prices at Best Buy and Walmart due to theft. It's all factored in and there isn't much that any of us can do about it.

That being said...the rate at which you were scrubbed is incredibly high. Most reputable places will scrub 10-20% MAXIMUM. Sometimes the advertiser will give back the scrubbed leads at the end of the month. When that happens, I always pass that along to the publishers who were promoting the offer. After all....it's their money.

<shameless plug>
If you're looking for an honest CPA network that isn't out to steal your money, hit me up :]
</shameless plug)
 
I say put them on blast right here and let them explain to all of us.
 
songer said:
We all know cpa companies shave, but how much? I decided to run a little experiment to find out. I chose 5 simple email submits from 5 different networks, each from unrelated advertisers. I put them on a landing page and promoted it for a week so it was receiving steady traffic and conversions.

I then selected 20 trustworthy people that I know, all adults, educated people who never filled out a CPA offer in their lives. I asked them to test my website for me and gave very specific instructions...they were each to fill out one of the five offers each day for five days. They used their real info, confirmed their email addresses when required, and logged in to the websites when applicable.

I had them send me proof such as URL of page after submitting, user names, passwords, etc., and asked for all of their IP addresses from whatsmyip.org so I could see how many of the conversions registered on my snapshot.

I waited an additional 5 days after their submissions to allow for tracking delays on the network's end.

Out of 100 fully completed offers from real people, people who live in California, Boston and everywhere in between. Not microworkers, not freelancers using proxies, not incentivized "guaranteed sign-ups" workers, real normal human beings that I know well (not even relatives), I got 37 recorded and accepted conversions.

That's a breathtaking 63% failure rate.

If you ever feel a twinge of guilt for using BH methods, remember this thread, get your head straight, and go make sure you get paid!
Click to expand...

Do you mind revealing the 5 different networks so that we can be careful from the next time?

Thanks
 
they once did me for 90%, but then again i was using some piece of crap network so i was kinda asking for it, also their offers really sucked and they had very little offers so yeah i would definitely steer clear of sketchy networks nobody really knows about, in my case this network had automatic approval! just sign up and get started, strange huh?
 
icemetal said:
they once did me for 90%, but then again i was using some piece of crap network so i was kinda asking for it, also their offers really sucked and they had very little offers so yeah i would definitely steer clear of sketchy networks nobody really knows about, in my case this network had automatic approval! just sign up and get started, strange huh?
Click to expand...

Haha. Automatic approval is a REALLY bad sign for any Network. That's a frauders dream.
 
Interesting read ... So far MaxbOunty is the only network that has worked for me but
still the ROI was -ve.

If there's anyone who has any experiance with successful FB Ads, Microsft Adcenter, PoF ads, hit me up.

:-/
 
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