Services with no Anchor Diversity

SuperLinks said:

The biggest problem is that most service providers are lazy, and the logistics of offering a service that allows a lot of keyword diversity is difficult to track and manage.

You are right, its time that service providers offer the ability to include extra slots and/or "panda/penguin" friendly keyword diversity.

Hate to plug our service, but we've been doing this for the past two months. We'll before Penguin was ever rolled out.

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Most BST providers are lazy? Apparently we haven't met because I consider myself one of the hardest working people I know. The majority of BST owners I associate with are the same way.

Focusing on just anchor diversification only is not wise. Spread the link types out. Those footprints everyone uses to find backlink sources are crawled by Google as well. It's not hard for Google to see your link mysteriously appear on 5,000 sites running a wiki platform or a couple thousand pligg sites. Diversify all of your backlink profile data to look natural and build slow enough to maintain link velocity. I'm running some tests on existing and new sites, but this is going to take a lot of time for me to figure out. I hope some others beat me to the draw so we all can get back into making $ with our sites.

As a service provider in the BST section that offers one of the "1 or 2 keyword" services I thought I would chime in.

The service I offer focuses on 1 or 2 keywords, but I also do mix in variations of the keyword as well as use the raw URL itself. Furthermore if the client wishes to use an abundance of keywords, I allow them to do so as well. Ultimately it is up to them.

That being said though as service providers we make our money by producing "results". If every package offered hundreds of urls/keyword combinations, nobody would get SERP movement, and the buyer would deem the service as "crap". How many people want to spend money on "anchor text variation" packages that do not produce immediate results? Probably not many.

Would you keep buying a service over and over that uses anchor text variation but does not produce any boost in SERPs for your main keywords?

Anchor text variation is very important, and I do not think anyone should necessarily rely on a single service for all their needs.

However people are short-sighted and think in the short-term. People want results yesterday.

This isn't to say that these packages can't be used as part of a long-term strategy, as I am sure when combined with other types of "anchor text variation" packages they can create quite a strong SEO profile.

If people would be willing to pay more for the possible extra work etc. that would be great too, however for the most part people are looking for the best combination of value/results.

So for service providers it really is a catch22.

I have a team of link builders, and they build quality links. I'm considering opening up a few services here designed for Penguin. My sites have done very well. I thought one got hit by penguin, but turns out it bumped bakc a few days later and its been great ever since, and the dip was just 1-2 spots, so it wasn't slapped by penguin at all; just a shift in competitors rankings.

There would be 2 core services:

1. A general "variety linking package" which would contain lots of diversity in terms of links, and lots of diversity in terms of anchors. It'd contain social bookmarks, wiki's, videos, high PR bookmarks, high PR comments and .edu links. It would be designed for 10+ anchors.
2. A link pyramid package that is designed to target 1-2 core keywords, while diversifying the anchors too. It is designed for 1-2 core keywords, and 10+ extra anchors.

Turn around time would be at least 2 weeks, and that would create a natural linking effect.

The only problem with offering a service like this, is that it may not result in super-boosting effects. Thats because you're spreading yourself out over multiple keywords. So I'm just not sure how it would take off. Its also quite an ordeal to make. It would cost at least $65-70. Reply if you think it sounds interesting.

Unfortunately "Panda-proof" and "Penguin-proof" titles is all just marketing. Same services rehashed from the past year with a fancy new title.

lipstick-on-a-pig.jpg

Gyuman82 said:

As a service provider in the BST section that offers one of the "1 or 2 keyword" services I thought I would chime in.

The service I offer focuses on 1 or 2 keywords, but I also do mix in variations of the keyword as well as use the raw URL itself. Furthermore if the client wishes to use an abundance of keywords, I allow them to do so as well. Ultimately it is up to them.

That being said though as service providers we make our money by producing "results". If every package offered hundreds of urls/keyword combinations, nobody would get SERP movement, and the buyer would deem the service as "crap". How many people want to spend money on "anchor text variation" packages that do not produce immediate results? Probably not many.

Would you keep buying a service over and over that uses anchor text variation but does not produce any boost in SERPs for your main keywords?

Anchor text variation is very important, and I do not think anyone should necessarily rely on a single service for all their needs.

However people are short-sited and think in the short-term. People want results yesterday.

This isn't to say that these packages can't be used as part of a long-term strategy, as I am sure when combined with other types of "anchor text variation" packages they can create quite a strong SEO profile.

If people would be willing to pay more for the possible extra work etc. that would be great too, however for the most part people are looking for the best combination of value/results.

So for service providers it really is a catch22.

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I understand the issues that you guys have but you also have to consider that not everyone on here is working on adsense sites and are only concerned with getting super fast results, some of us fully understand that this is a long haul and I respect that I am not going to see results in two weeks (not results that will last), SEO is not a quick hit game and anybody that thinks it is are in the wrong business.

At the end of the day it is a choice, anyone who wants to use the services that only supply 1 or 2 keywords are fully entitled to do so, I personally need a bit more flexibility than that.

We are just trying to collect a list of links to services that do provide this service, there is no offence or criticism aimed at any service provider, at least not by me, I have used many many BST's and luckily everyone I have dealt with has been exceptionally professional and provided exactly what they promised, but things have moved on.

It looks like there are now a few new BST's in the pipeline that intend to offer this kind of service and I think there is a place for them alongside some of the 2 or 3 kw services, for example you could point one of them at your main focus keywords and then use one of the unlimited anchor services to keep your anchor diversity under the radar.

IamNRE said:

Agreed, seems like some of these service providers have not been reading up on the recent penguin update.

I will offer a white hat SEO service and accept at least 10 keywords and 10 urls and I will also add generic anchor keywords like "click here" etc.


Watch this space if you want a quality white hat service.

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I do not think you can offer any service below than $300 for targeting 10 keywords. and also in that price 1st page ranking is also not possible.

Due to that in BHW, a lot of service provide accepting 2 to 3 keywords maximum. If they will increase keywords, then i am afraid they have to increase their service price also.

Gyuman82 said:

That being said though as service providers we make our money by producing "results". If every package offered hundreds of urls/keyword combinations, nobody would get SERP movement, and the buyer would deem the service as "crap". How many people want to spend money on "anchor text variation" packages that do not produce immediate results? Probably not many.

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Ye but you can look at this the other way too. How many customers are going to use your service again if you dont offer keyword diversity and their sites get Pandarized as a result of your services? You in between a rock and a hard place. If you offer keyword diversity the customer may not get the expected results fast on the other hand if you dont offer it they will never use your service again because you had their site banned. I guess if your banking on the fact that they will use your service once and never again youll bank but then your reviews may not be as favorable and you may lose out of more orders.

So anyone with a list of Panda/Penguin suppliers? Something that actually works....

mrxinbollywood said:

I do not think you can offer any service below than $300 for targeting 10 keywords. and also in that price 1st page ranking is also not possible.

Due to that in BHW, a lot of service provide accepting 2 to 3 keywords maximum. If they will increase keywords, then i am afraid they have to increase their service price also.

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My price will be around $150-199.

After a LOT of testing and research I don't believe you need 50 different anchors. The most common anchor used is actually just the URL itself. Google isn't looking for total quantity, it's looking for overall percentages.

If every order you make, 50% or more of your anchors are the URL itself, you should fall well within their percentages.

(Not so) Random thoughts...:

• BST providers should offer 'mini packages', such that true and real anchor diversity that is more readily available (i.e. multiple orders for the same one site, thereby giving the consumer what it is that they want). And/or, devise packages that really and truly achieve these same ends. I've emboldened what I have because after ordering well over 100 BSTs for test purposes from this forum for test sites, the BSTs that offer anchor diversity are - by and large - doing so at the expense of the quality of the links they build. For example, spinning content to a magnitude now easily detected to Google as spun... I mean they are really, really bad: BoBo the chimp understands that the content of these links is not how human language works. I'll not mention any provider, specifically.

• As someone who knows algorithms - how they do and must function - I truly hope that BST service providers do not 'over correct' (as it were) as a result of threads such as this: As I've said elsewhere, there is nothing *inherently* wrong with any of the BSTs offered on this forum: It is YOUR (you consumer, you) responsibility to understand link velocity, link-type acquisition, unnatural spikes in x,y,z, PR acquisition, etc etc etc as these and many more things are averaged across your niche... and how search engines are defining the parameters of what does and does not constitute your niche. Given that I understand these things, I, personally, could not care less if BST providers change anything at all: They are providing me with the tools I know I need as I build something - nothing more. When I need a wrench, I grab the best wrench; when I need some pliers, I grab the best pliers.

• In the end, though, I see the demand that BST providers offer something 'better' because consmuer 'x' doesn't know his or her asshole from their elbow as a diversion - a fundamental shift of responsibility. What I am willing to concede is that BST providers will certainly make a lot more money in the end should they be willing to cater to the needs of the ignorant, misinformed, stubborn pretenders that infect the modern IM world en masse.

LoL bobo

I run a service with 50 anchors with up to 50 urls (each anchor with its respective url).

The service itself is quite diverse and combines more than 5 methods for link building. If anyone interested check my thread or pm me for more information.

Tnphoneman.. Do you expect us to use 10 services, on a month old domain? Even 10 services all at once could harm the site with all those links coming suddenly..

What is stopping the service providers from accepting unlimited keywords... Many a times we dont want to rank but just need those links to maintain velocity and diversity..

And about people complaining about the service not working, coz of using many keywords... U can just put this thing up in the disclaimer.. And sensible people already wil be knowing diluting the keywords got its own motive, its not for immediate ranking..

The problem is that it's hard for many service providers to manage a service with "unlimited" keywords.

Penguin was released to make lazy SEO'ng a thing of the past. You know, buying a few Fiverr gigs for your homepage all with the same anchor text.

Can you still succeed with those type of services? Sure, but it takes a little more research, analysis and planning to see ultimate results. Which is why I say that "lazy SEO" is dead.

_Chip_ said:

Tnphoneman.. Do you expect us to use 10 services, on a month old domain? Even 10 services all at once could harm the site with all those links coming suddenly..

What is stopping the service providers from accepting unlimited keywords... Many a times we dont want to rank but just need those links to maintain velocity and diversity..

And about people complaining about the service not working, coz of using many keywords... U can just put this thing up in the disclaimer.. And sensible people already wil be knowing diluting the keywords got its own motive, its not for immediate ranking..

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Because some of the people replying on here (BST owners) seem to think that everyone just wants instant results and dont realise that a proper SEO campaign takes time and a service you are paying $30 per month for will rank you number one in 3 weeks for a payday loan keyword.

Most people on here don't fall into that bracket and are very realistic about what they will get for every $100 they spend.

I am using a service at the moment that I am paying $2600 Per month for, it is in month 2 and I have seen no improvement yet, am I worried? No...not one bit, because I have seen the quality of the content and the level of distribution and the professionalism behind the service, and it is a very very competitive finance niche, and I fully believe that the results will come but it may take anything up to 6 months before I see real movement and I am prepared to wait.

So stop thinking that everyone is an idiot fly by night marketer who needs results in 24 hours.

What most people need is a quality service that will offer diversity and will provide lasting results regardless of any algo changes.....and I think most of us would be patient while this happened.

Ive just had to sit out a 3 month penalty so waiting is all part of this game.

Great discussion.

There is nothing stopping a service provider from providing more than 2-3 keywords per package. However, most of the time, a certain group of buyers who are buying these services have a couple of keywords in mind that they are looking to get results for. Blame it on what they have read, blame it on the perception they have built over the years, blame it on anything ... but that's what it is.

So, while a service provider can technically provide more than a couple of keywords per package, the buyer needs to set his expectations right too. He can't expect extreme movements in the course of a week, specially when the links aren't particularly targeted for any set of anchors. He will see results, of course, but that would be long term so while some buyers would want this, others, who are looking for fast results (and there are a whole lot of them) would simply stay away.

There are people on BHW that I've ordered from (mostly those who provide their services elsewhere) and they have done their job. Its me who should know how to use them and what to expect. I'm not blaming it on the clients; being a service provider myself, there are many people who I have worked with who know exactly what they want and we do that for them. However, an equal number of people want results for cheap and want them fast, for rather easy keywords. That, I believe, is lucrative for many service providers, especially those who have just started off.

Of course, you can just price your service higher and filter the tire kickers just based on that. Here, you have to make the decision and most service providers, unfortunately, fall into the trap of doing volume at a lower price. I've seen both ends of the spectrum (selling for dirt cheap and selling for relatively higher prices); we allowed our clients to add as many keywords as they wanted, and encouraged them to diversify their anchor text and sources quite a while ago. But then again, these are people who are already on top of the game and they know what they want.

Many service providers, I believe, run their tests and have their own sites (at least those on the higher end). I have a bunch of my own sites, those that make money as well as those that are used as test platforms. We run our own tests all the time, invest some resources and a lot of time into this just to make sure that we are on top of almost every change. As RevSEO accurately points out, right now, more than ever before, you have to figure in analytics into your SEO. That takes time and effort and subsequently, the costs go up. I do believe that many service providers here know that a better long-term strategy would be anchor variation (taking an example here).

The gist is this: there are different types of buyers. Some know what they are doing. Some don't. Those who do know that it'll take time to see results and know what a good long-term strategy looks like. The service provider, however, is caught between trying to cater to all sorts of buyers and that is where the problem, I believe, lies.

So, in my humble opinion, the ideal solution if the service provider is allowing only a couple of keywords would be this: if you, as a client, want more keywords, ask the service provider if he can accommodate them. More often than not, they will be able to (unless they are stubborn, or are new) and you get your way. It'd take less than a minute.

Here's some food for thought: After allowing a greater number of keywords per order, about 70% of our clients still put in two or less than two keywords when they place an order. We do send them an e-mail letting them know that we will be adding some generic anchors yet, that's an interesting number. One person was furious that we added a couple of generic anchors (this was about a week ago) even when we had e-mailed him (and have this on our offer, through our buying process, on our order form, etc).

Oh, and in case someone forms the wrong perception, I'm totally in favor of allowing more keywords. Its a decision the service provider has to make though.

elvis1973 said:

Because some of the people replying on here (BST owners) seem to think that everyone just wants instant results and dont realise that a proper SEO campaign takes time and a service you are paying $30 per month for will rank you number one in 3 weeks for a payday loan keyword.

Most people on here don't fall into that bracket and are very realistic about what they will get for every $100 they spend.

I am using a service at the moment that I am paying $2600 Per month for, it is in month 2 and I have seen no improvement yet, am I worried? No...not one bit, because I have seen the quality of the content and the level of distribution and the professionalism behind the service, and it is a very very competitive finance niche, and I fully believe that the results will come but it may take anything up to 6 months before I see real movement and I am prepared to wait.

So stop thinking that everyone is an idiot fly by night marketer who needs results in 24 hours.

What most people need is a quality service that will offer diversity and will provide lasting results regardless of any algo changes.....and I think most of us would be patient while this happened.

Ive just had to sit out a 3 month penalty so waiting is all part of this game.

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Again though I fully agree with you, surely you must recognize that you fall into a small percentage of internet marketers. I do not doubt that the service you describe and are paying for will eventually pan out, but how many people could ride out a $2,600/month investment for months with no signs of immediate improvement, but only a promise down the line things will work out? Probably not many.

Again all BST services need to be used/combined properly by the consumer. We provide the service, you need to analyze how it fits into your game plan.

Just because service providers do not offer unlimited keywords/urls does not mean that we do not care about our customers. I know that I want the best for my customers, and again if someone needs something customized to their needs I will do my best to accommodate it. Our business is dependent on their success, but again we are only 1 part of the equation. There are so many other factors that dictate rankings including on-site factors, quality of content, etc.

Despite what you think, a service that cost say $100-200 that had a TON of anchor text variation that produced no immediate results, and needed several applications, would probably honestly not appeal to a lot of people. Your service thread would be loaded with comments like "I purchased this and it was not worth the money. No serp movement, no results, nothing" and "What a waste of money".

You fall into a small percentage of "rational" internet marketers, when it should be obvious that most internet marketers are not "rational", and do not have realistic expectations.

Again it is up to the consumer to utilize our services properly in their overall game plan for success.

I agree fully with you, but again this is just the reality.

elvis1973 said:

Because some of the people replying on here (BST owners) seem to think that everyone just wants instant results and dont realise that a proper SEO campaign takes time and a service you are paying $30 per month for will rank you number one in 3 weeks for a payday loan keyword.

Most people on here don't fall into that bracket and are very realistic about what they will get for every $100 they spend.

I am using a service at the moment that I am paying $2600 Per month for, it is in month 2 and I have seen no improvement yet, am I worried? No...not one bit, because I have seen the quality of the content and the level of distribution and the professionalism behind the service, and it is a very very competitive finance niche, and I fully believe that the results will come but it may take anything up to 6 months before I see real movement and I am prepared to wait.

So stop thinking that everyone is an idiot fly by night marketer who needs results in 24 hours.

What most people need is a quality service that will offer diversity and will provide lasting results regardless of any algo changes.....and I think most of us would be patient while this happened.

Ive just had to sit out a 3 month penalty so waiting is all part of this game.

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Not everyone is looking for instant results for cheap. Not everyone, as you say, is a fly-by-the-night marketer.

I've got clients who have been very patient and accommodating after the Penguin. I've had clients who have been downright abusive, too. I have a couple of clients who have paid a serious amount starting 2011 and they are the best people I've worked with. They understand what it takes to rank and they are pretty easy to work with, too, so long as you are delivering quality work.

But then, there are only a few of those clients. The majority aren't nearly as accommodating when there are a ton other options that they can hop onto. I don't, for a moment, assume that everyone who buys these services is looking for results in a week. There are indeed people who are patient, like you. But they are rare, especially in marketplaces like these.

If they were the majority of the market, almost everyone would be catering to that segment. Its a hell of a lot easier to work with those kinds of people and you get more space (and budget) to do things that you'd normally not do (because of financial constraints more than anything else).

I can't comment on the BHW marketplace specifically since I've no experience of selling here but from the experience of selling elsewhere, I can tell you that there are very few people who are going to wait for results. Most people would simply jump onto the next service with the best testimonials which leaves you with little room to do your stuff. In fact, there have been several instances where the work we have done has been credited to someone else, simply because the results weren't instant.

A good alternative would be to simply not cater to that market. However, that's a very, very difficult decision to make because, from a service provider's perspective, he is cutting off a good percentage of his market. Not an easy thing to do.

I'm just playing the devil's advocate here though D). I concur with you. The world would be a better place if all buyers set the right expectations for themselves.