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SEO Hosting Coop...

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by savvypro, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. savvypro

    savvypro Regular Member

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    If you have not read the thread: SEO Hosting is complete bullshit..., do it before you read this one...


    The reason for this thread:
    Short version:​
    This thread is to see if there is any interest in setting up a hosting coop to do ?seo hosting? the correct way, (no paradox - if you read the linked thread).

    If you are interested, please add a post to this thread noting your interest and if there is anything you can or are willing to contribute. Read what follows before posting...


    Long version:​
    I have been thinking about some of the implementation issues being raised (in: SEO Hosting is complete bullshit...).

    I have thought about getting some reseller accounts and offering space on them as a host. But with my current plans*, and with things happening in my personal life, it's currently not an option. It would have to be financially worthwhile, as the upfront cost for just the accounts is high and all my money is tied up in the thing's I'm currently doing.


    The other option is doing a hosting coop, where a number of people offer sub accounts to coop members.

    The biggest problem with doing the above two: is one person could spoil it for everyone.

    The Terms of Use and the Acceptable Use policies of most hosting companies, state that the account holder (or the person paying the bill), are where the buck stops - even as a reseller.

    What the above means: going down the hosting provider route, I (or anyone else offering reseller hosting), is responsible for the abuse being done by a client.

    The coop route means: that only the member of the coop offering space on their hosting account (where the abuse is taking place), is responsible for the abuse.

    It's basically the same thing, except that the single provider is a single point of failure, while the coop has multiple points of failure.

    If, say: I were to offer space on reseller accounts and something happens to me or I decide I'm no longer interested. It's a problem for everyone. Where as, with the coop, the disruption is limited to the coop member offering space and those with accounts with that member.


    If there is enough interest in setting up a coop, I can setup a site on one of my VPS, where the coop could be operated from.

    If you are interested, please add a post to this thread noting your interest and if there is anything you can or are willing to contribute.




    . . .

    * = current plans include: 10 VPS to configure and maintain, still need to get a few more for fail over in the EU. Space on them is not available for seo hosting - so don?t ask or pm me about it.

    Have quite a bit of programming to do, to turn the VPS into a grid, which would also be useful for the coop in terms of monitoring.
     
  2. elvis1973

    elvis1973 Power Member

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    im interest, i have a decent hosting account, costs me about £3k per year and supports unlimited domain and sub domains, full ftp access can be provided, supports wordpress etc.
     
  3. phpbuilt

    phpbuilt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Just a heads-up for all the people who are serious enough about SEO to actually try things out for yourselves, don't believe everything you read. Feel free to try it for yourself. The URL you linked to, sure -- its very well guessed at. Except I never saw the guy actually say he tried it (conventional SEO hosting).

    Meanwhile, I know of top 10 rankings on half mil exact search keywords are being floated with 200 spun websites on the same 3 IP addresses.

    Just because Google has a patent on using links coming from related IP addresses to affect ranks, doesn't mean they actually use it, though it is likely they do. But there is absolutely no way of knowing whether that thread's OP definition of proper SEO hosting, or whether the 3rd digit being rotated, is what constitutes what Google is looking for. All anyone can do is best-guess. For all anyone knows (unless they try it themselves), sequential IPs could be just as powerful as anything else. It's all a guessing game.

    SEO has hundreds, if not thousands of variables in play to determine a site's rank. Even if someone's SEO network crashed and burned, it could have just as easily been from a competitor reporting the network and the whim of a manual inspector's decision, rather than an algorithmic smackdown.

    I do SEO hosting, with my definition being the same as all the other SEO hosting company's definitions (3rd digit rotated). It works well for me.
     
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  4. elvis1973

    elvis1973 Power Member

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    Who do you use?

    im not going to take anyones word for anything without trying, its just an area that I have no experience in and gaining that experience can be costly and time consuming.
     
  5. savvypro

    savvypro Regular Member

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    What bits are: "very well guessed at"?

    You are correct, I haven't tried "conventional SEO hosting" by any SEO Host, because I have not come across one that actually delivers what they say they do. As I pointed out in the thread.

    Plus I have VPS's in different network locations accross North America and Europe, (which I'm still expanding to the rest of the world). So have no need for "SEO hosting" by people who clearly don't know about networks - the things that underpin the Internet.

    How many updates have they survived?

    Yes it's a guessing game, only thing is I covered way more than just links. I covered the main area most SEO Hosts are bullsh*tting people on: networking. I covered what Google have revealed about their network gear, and what it allows them to do.

    I left out the RFC's on the networking bits, but provided the search terms for people to search on, so that they do their own research so as to not just take my word for it.

    If your sites are all located in the same place, it's easier to track down then using the method I posted. Which goes beyond SEO.

    3rd digit rotated? Do you mean:
    3rd octet i.e. Class C IP address range.
    Or 4th octet - host part of the classful address range e.g.: nnn.nnn.nnn.HHH​
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
  6. savvypro

    savvypro Regular Member

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    What you doing, renting out a server or 3?
     
  7. phpbuilt

    phpbuilt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I use seohosting.com. It's a subcompany of hostgator. They're shared IPs. My thoughts on that are that hostgator is a massive company, 99% of which are not SEO hosting. If my IPs get mixed in with hostgator's regular hosting, Google can't algorithmically smack down all of hostgator's IPs as being SEO hosting.

    @savvypro, I mean xxx.xxx.different.xxx. It results in many xxx.different as well.

    When I add more than 125 I will be adding from different provider.

    I would agree that it might have a better diversity if I were to buy up little accounts one by one through hundreds of hosts. However, keeping track of the logins and different quirks necessary to deal with each individual hosting company is so much of an effort that it makes the benefit of that diversity not worth it. (except when I'm dealing with 50 to 100 class-c IPs per company).

    I didn't respond to your thread because, it seems to me, you have everything figured out theoretically but you've done nothing. You're so smart, you've decided its more beneficial to do nothing than to get suckered by those idiot SEO providers. Perhaps you're signing up at companies one by one and spending 10 times more work keeping track of different logins and quirks by different providers.

    I'd rather be stupid, try things out and make $. People do SEO hosting for a reason, it makes money. You say (theoretically) that it doesn't work, that no one offers real SEO hosting, etc... SEO hosting wouldn't be such big business if it didn't work and didn't really exist from the SEO host providers. Again, I know of multi million dollar businesses propped up by 3ish IP addresses, and yes they're still there. And no, I'm not going to blow their cover ... because outing people's bread and butter isn't cool (especially seeing it isn't my particular niche).

    I'm not here to get into a pissing match. You're putting out the message to everyone that conventional SEO hosting is not real, its crap, somehow doesn't work. Except, it does work.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  8. savvypro

    savvypro Regular Member

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    @phpbuilt

    You clearly have not read my posts in either thread and are making things up, assuming that, that is what I'm doing.


    In post 34 (see: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...on-hosting-complete-bullshit.html#post3940082)

    The above was part of an answer, for a question which provided little information about how the person (asking the question) was intending to use their sites.


    I covered that in the same post, which you seem to not have read based on what you have typed.

    Interesting assumption. Where did I say I had everything figured out - little hint: no where. What I point out is the reality based on fact, if you actualy read my posts you will see that I clearly state that the concept is valid, the problem is no one is delivering it the way they push the concept.

    You are also assuming (again) that I have not done a thing.

    See my last statment (You are also assuming (again)). And the end of my opening post in this thread...

    Again with the asumptions, where excatly did I say I am buying up shared hosting to do SEO hosting - little hint: no where.

    I use shared hosting as an example on how to implement the concept the way it is pushed. Which does not = me buying share hosting. I used the example based on how the question was asked, to me.


    Just by that last statement (orange bit) you clearly prove that you have not read my posts.

    I'll make it simple: The concept is valid, the problem is what is delivered is not what is sold.

    If you had actually read just the opening post of the other thread you would have read the following:

    Side note:
    A good example is the following thread: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...anation-what-identifies-class-c-ip-block.html

    It covers part of a thread (that's been deleted), which was started by a SEO Hosting sponsor of this forum. Where they were selling Class C IP address when they were blatantly not. Read what GreyWolf posted, not just my posts.​

    It exists as a category of hosting because of ignorance of the underpinnings of the Internet. Which has allowed people to jump of the class C bandwagon. You can do the same thing that is being sold as SEO hosting with normal shared hosting, just by asking the provider for more IP addresses.

    All I asked was how many updates* it's survived, which is a valid question especially if the spun content is spammy.

    * In reference to Google updates, as that is the search engine that most people target and try to game.

    I never asked you to spill the beans and tell us everything. I know spamming the search engines work - for a while. Problem is that in the long run it's more work then setting up things properly from the beginning. Having what you do last for years, and not months and then having to figure out how to game the system again every time you lose your rankings. This last sentence is not even in reference to SEO hosting, just basic site creation.

    If it works for you, good for you. Others have said it does not work, for them.

    What I said in it's simplest forms:
    1. Never said it was not real.
    2. What is sold, is not what you get.
    3. Network diversification is a lot better, than putting all of your eggs in one basket.

    Now this thread is about seeing if there is interest in people getting together as a coop - in order to save time, money and effort - with hosting.

    Problems with what I posted in the other thread, should be posted in the other thread.
     
  9. elvis1973

    elvis1973 Power Member

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    Yeah I have a dedicated server with Namesco

    Thats what worries me, i have a job keeping track of all the current logins that i have so adding another 100+ is gonna be a pain.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  10. phpbuilt

    phpbuilt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I've read your other thread. I didn't agree with it. I didn't post there because from your tone I can tell you #1) take being right personally, and #2) have no intention of changing your mind, and #3) whenever anyone challenges you, you write a mile long response saying nothing new.


    My response to this statement is going to be much the same as my response to all your statements. You have absolutely no proof that this is what Google is looking for it its algorithm looking for varied IPs. It is pure guess, end of story. As long as we're guessing about things ... you've already admitted you've never done it. Maybe I'm better at guessing than you are, seeing that I have.

    Oh I read it. I just don't agree with it. An analogy would be manually writing articles vs quality spins. You make a long, detailed post about how all spins are crap and only real manually written articles will be successful with Google. Then here I am, saying ... "In general, yes manual articles are nice. They're higher quality. However, high quality spins are perfectly fine."

    If conventional SEO Hosting companies didn't offer a product that was profitable to users, they wouldn't be in business.

    Honestly, if you don't have it all figured out ... why are you the new "SEO companies suck" poster boy? You're on a mission to take down seo hosting companies and you don't have it figured out? You haven't even tried them?

    You should modify your signature to say "SEO Hosting is complete bullshit, BTW I don't have all the answers and I've never even tried it".


    OMG. You haven't tried conventional SEO hosting. You haven't tried buying lots of little accounts with multiple companies to piece together a safer version of SEO hosting. Have you ever even SEO hosted at ALL before? Whatever ... blind leading the blind.

    You're directly pissing on SEO hosting companies. You're indirectly pissing all over probably 100% of all privately owned public blog networks listed in the BST section. And you have no past SEO hosting experience that I can see you're willing to admit to.

    And even if it doesn't work for them, SEO is not an exact science. There are thousands of variables at play. Perhaps their network crashed and burned because they interlinked them improperly. Perhaps it was because their articles were too general, not specific to a theme. Perhaps it was because Google has developed a footprint that applies to their type of network (that doesn't include IPs). Perhaps its because their templates were too similar. Perhaps it was because a competitor reported their network and brought them down.

    For you to brush aside all other possibilities and identify the particular type of SEO hosting the network was using as the culprit, when you've never even SEO hosted before, is silly.

    And now I can see your response "Again with your assumptions, where did I even say I never SEO hosted before." All you do is theorize ... post some actual experience you have with SEO hosting so I don't have to assume. All I know right now is you've never used conventional SEO hosting, and you have never bought single shared hosting from hundreds of companies. I don't even know of another type of SEO hosting that could possibly exist beyond that, so please ... enlighten everyone with exactly how you've SEO hosted before. You're claiming to be the expert on SEO hosting, I'm sure everyone would love to hear how you got to be so great at it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  11. 2 4 k

    2 4 k Junior Member

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    I'm interested in something like this, I have reseller hosting that allows multiple server locations (Host9) so the IP's are spread geographically aswell as the IP diversity, I also have a number of shared hosting accounts.

    I also have a WP plugin that each site can install and be issued a license to remain active that allows an article to be loaded, spun and posted out to each site in a 'network' automatically.

    All set ready to go, just needed more partners with sites to add to the network so a coop would be a good fit.
     
  12. savvypro

    savvypro Regular Member

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    @phpbuilt
    From your posts you are clearly incapable of reading what has been posted, and just like to jump to unfounded conclusions, and assume that they are my reality.

    When you point a finger at someone, you have 3 pointing right back at you...
     
  13. nik-0

    nik-0 BANNED BANNED

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    I think you might be right theoretically, but like phpbuilt says: show us some case studies that you performed, a bit more detail then just yelling it doesnt work, when you explained the whole c-class technical part you were very detailed but in the actual experience with it you are very vague.
     
  14. TNphoneman

    TNphoneman Senior Member

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    I did read the other thread and laughed at your definition also. It is obvious that you have the wrong host. We have 100 sites on different class a, b and c levels. I think that the c level has no more than 5 sites on one class c.

    But getting back to the point. The conclusion is ridiculous because of all the shared hosting that you spam with scrapebox and xrummer. They can not ban because of ip address unless you put them all on one. And before you start an argument on this, they devalued the link type not the ip address. They also still count just not as strong.
     
  15. savvypro

    savvypro Regular Member

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    Where the fu*k did I say it does not work.

    phpbuilt jumped to the conclusion that I said it doesn't work.

    Other people made posts, stating that it doesn't work for them. How exactly is that me saying that it doesn't work.

    If others say something, how is it me that said it. How is that a difficult concept to comprehend.

    I'll make it simple for everyone.

    How is my statement:
    The way SEO Hosting is sold and not delivered.
    = to:
    It does not work.​

    What I then stated is how to implement the hosting concept/idea/strategy, the way it is sold/pushed/marketed.


    I shouldn't even have to provide evidence seeing as I'm not the one who said SEO hosting doesn't work. But here's independent proof (so that you can't say I'm making stuff up): ever heard of mini nets (see Michael Campbell's Revenge of The Mininet), or the clones: link wheels, link rings, linking galaxies, hub and spokes, spokes & nodes, pumpers and feeders. Money sites and feeder sites, etc.
     
  16. savvypro

    savvypro Regular Member

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    @TNphoneman

    Are you referring to me as your post is ambiguous/not clear?

    What definition?

    What host?
    Do you mean the examples I gave using shared hosting?
    Or that I stated that I have VPS (Virtual Private Servers), across North America and Europe)?

    Who's conclusion?

    If you are referring to me, I never said I spam shared hosting using scrapebox and xrummer.

    Are you referring to me, about starting an argument?
     
  17. TNphoneman

    TNphoneman Senior Member

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    Man are your panties bunching or something? I was talking about the other thread, but you drew the same conclusions obviously. If you want to take the comments the wrong way that is up to you.
     
  18. savvypro

    savvypro Regular Member

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    As you did not clearly state who you were referring to.
    I don't jump to conclusions or make assumptions (like others have), which is why I asked for clarification and clearly stated that your post is ambiguous/not clear?

    If you want to misinterpret a request for clarification, that is your choice.
     
  19. beewise

    beewise Newbie

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    I am interested in a coop where we could trade or barter hosts. You have a 10 "class C Ip" hosting account somewhere and with 5 addon-s for each IP, and I have something similar elsewhere... we exchange or barter one for the other. We both behave and do no spamming or anything that would hurt each others hosting account or the relationship comes to an end. If 10 people get into the barter coop we all get to have 10 different hosting IP's spread through different locations or hosting companies.
     
  20. silvermario

    silvermario Regular Member

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    Thank you savvypro for your golden insights, it will help me a lot in setting up a small blog network.

    phpbuilt I respect you for your great threads, but in this case you have ruinded a good thread by arguing with statements savvypro has never stated.