SEO for an events company

t2van said:

You both must be marketing wizz kidz to work out an ROI for a new client having not tested the landing page or where ever your driving traffic to, the ads and the best performing text/images to use and placements before running any data set.

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As aforementioned: "Then run a test to see if the forecasting is accurate, without spunking their whole budget"

The rest of your rambling is nonsensical, based on - what I assume - is the attempt to save face. Perhaps out client base is waaaay different. The SME's I deal with, don't have budget to throw away on the offchance it works. If there is clearly no commercial opportunity in pursuing AdWords due to the expected CPC, then I'll always suggest that we test something that would be more likely to provide a healthier return. Reckon we leave it at this, clearly we have two very different approaches to working with clients and, if yours works and mine works, then clearly we just have a differing tact. No biggy.

Maxim Alston said:

As aforementioned: "Then run a test to see if the forecasting is accurate, without spunking their whole budget"

The rest of your rambling is nonsensical, based on - what I assume - is the attempt to save face. Perhaps out client base is waaaay different. The SME's I deal with, don't have budget to throw away on the offchance it works. If there is clearly no commercial opportunity in pursuing AdWords due to the expected CPC, then I'll always suggest that we test something that would be more likely to provide a healthier return. Reckon we leave it at this, clearly we have two very different approaches to working with clients and, if yours works and mine works, then clearly we just have a differing tact. No biggy.

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No not trying to save face. Different levels of working yes.

But you don't need to know what the profit is run a CPC for a client. You tell them if the main KW is 'XYZ' you advise them that that is going to cost X per click ask them if they are happy to run an advert with limited clicks till it pools in returns OR if your dealing with an SME you advise them to try a smaller ad run to start with focusing on a different KW to test the waters.

Like I said your still claiming "budget to throw away on the offchance it works" how do you know it works or does not work?

What money are you spending to find this out? The clients or yours?

No matter the cost of the advert you run, if the cost is £1 or £100 per click, there is still going to need time to dial that ad in and the page your driving traffic to. If that's not the case then lets run some ads now.

t2van said:

What money are you spending to find this out? The clients or yours?

No matter the cost of the advert you run, if the cost is £1 or £100 per click, there is still going to need time to dial that ad in and the page your driving traffic to. If that's not the case then lets run some ads now.

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Spend: Clients
Cost Per Click: This is what I was trying to get at. If the cost per click is £100 and the margin on the sale is £100, you can refine and dial in forever, but it will never be a profitable marketing channel...

Sigh...

If the cost per click is "£100" highly unlikely then the client's returns are not going to be £100 are they as the industry is going to be far more valuable than that.

You're going to twist and turn the cost per click to fit whatever model or fictional product you chose, however, it does not matter what the product is only the advertising budget.

Everyone starts off with a marketing budget like it or not, no matter if its billy no friends down the road or Audi next door. They ALL have a budget.

The ROI is based on the marketing spend and the return the client sees over the marketing period not the cost of spending vs the individual product.

Take a betting for example if they are paying £25 per advert click do you think they have factored in the cost of that person spending with them over 12 months or just on what they spend the first time they sign up? Some industries sell a product at a loss because getting the customer through the door to spend on other things is going to be more important.

That can be set out in the discovery phase of a meeting yes. But to simply come in blind and say well if your product is X and your cost per click is Y - I don't think it's worth it.

No business owner is going to share some little-untapped marketing scheme or where their income comes into someone who has no loyalty to them or can go off and work for a competitor next door.

But all your telling me is, budgets don't matter even if i only got £200 to spend on AdWords this month your telling me that doesn't matter because I'm going to see an ROI on every product so I don't need a budget I just got to keep paying for every click.

Like i said sign me up. You can market my stuff I don't need to give you a budget to spend during the month because I'll see the return on it. So sure start running my ads, we can talk once you spend more than i can afford.

Okay then.

Maxim Alston said:

Okay then.

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You seriously telling me you take no ad budget from a client to spend? Do you run adverts based on CPC and Profit from a sale? And these are SMEs you're talking about - they all hand over money just like that, no talks about costs or "budgets" just sold on the ROI dream.

You never had any trouble getting a client to pay £500 in ads if they only sold 1 product?

No one tells you they want to spend X per month ads? you just run them and then get the client to spend in the end?

There is no "budget" ?

t2van said:

You seriously telling me you take no ad budget from a client to spend? Do you run adverts based on CPC and Profit from a sale? And these are SMEs you're talking about - they all hand over money just like that, no talks about costs or "budgets" just sold on the ROI dream.

You never had any trouble getting a client to pay £500 in ads if they only sold 1 product?

No one tells you they want to spend X per month ads? you just run them and then get the client to spend in the end?

There is no "budget" ?

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You have completely lost me dude and this will be my last input on this, having effectively hijacked someones thread. Arguing with strangers on this internet is not really much of an effective use of time and clearly one of us has well and truly got the wrong end of the stick, so apologies if that's me.

Of the three questions you've asked, you've drawn three assumptions. When have I mentioned that no budget is set from the client? I set AdWords accounts up against client billing methods, not mine, they are then invoiced for my work in management separately. However, if after some rudimentary research and based on their available spend - before I even start any activity - it is clear that it's going to be difficult to offer a decent ROI, the client is informed of these concerns. It's then up to them if they'd like to me run or test any campaigns on their behalf.

Has me airing these potential issues with clients before cost me a quick buck with ad management revenue? Probably.

Has it solidified my relationships with clients by being transparent and demonstrating my expertise, as opposed to just doing what the client has heard is a good idea, rinsing through ad spend and charging for my time in addition? Undoubtedly.

All the best.

t2van said:

Jeez.

From the replies, you both gave me. Where does the money come from for the ads?

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No-one said anything about being "paid on results"

I think you're losing it mate, not sure what you're so angry about. Calm down. Smoke a blunt or something.

And no, I'm not paying out of my own pocket. We agree a budget for ad spend and then they pay for a package which include managing AdWords and Social Media etc

Quite interesting & useful comments. Since I also work as a conference & events manager in a luxurious hotel resort, I'm definitely following the thread.

Tehan123 said:

No-one said anything about being "paid on results"

I think you're losing it mate, not sure what you're so angry about. Calm down. Smoke a blunt or something.

And no, I'm not paying out of my own pocket. We agree a budget for ad spend and then they pay for a package which include managing AdWords and Social Media etc

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Not angry. Not lost anything.

So you do now have a budget. Because earlier you posted

"Budget is pretty much irrelevant, it's about delivering a good ROI to the client."

You both been telling me marketing budgets are out, and it's about ROI and how marketing budgets are irrelevant and how you market the product as your own and that's all that matters.

And now it comes down to it. You do have a budget on spend which is what most normal people would call "a marketing budget" funny that eh..

Maxim Alston said:

You have completely lost me dude and this will be my last input on this, having effectively hijacked someones thread. Arguing with strangers on this internet is not really much of an effective use of time and clearly one of us has well and truly got the wrong end of the stick, so apologies if that's me.

All the best.

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It's not you man, this guy is a clown.

Tehan123 said:

It's not you man, this guy is a clown.

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Ah resorting to insults now. Don't worry my last comment.

I'm the clown because all I want to know from the client is a market budget or max spend on adwords. You both come here and start telling me I'm wrong, angry and daft because all that matters is the client's profit margins and how that's more important than knowing what the client can afford to spend every month.

All that's important is the ROI from the outset no budget just simple cost per click = return.

You both came off replying to me saying no need to work out the spend daily or monthly spend because its all ROI based. The client can afford it because as soon as they start paying for clicks the money will start coming in, no testing time frame to dial adverts in. Clicks = Sales.

In the real world does not work like that. Good luck in the future kids.

t2van said:

In the real world does not work like that. Good luck in the future kids.

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Works for me.