Selling Wordpress Themes As 'Website Design'?

I did this for a short stint with a partner and banked $500 on two sites. I WAY underpriced myself and I pretty much did all the work. Needless to say I will always fly solo from here on out.

I am very interested in doing this again focusing on musicians and pushing seo and just outsourcing that aspect. My downfall is talking to people and not being great at finalizing the deals and just not having faith in myself.


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Cheers for the replies guys! One more question, I downloaded some Woothemes from TPB just to have a play around with some different themes. I don't intend on using these themes for selling at the moment, however, if I was, would there be any legal reasons not to use these pirated ones over the regular licenced ones on themeforest?

Thank!
 
I've built a WordPress theme on an existing theme designed specifically for creating themes (like a framework but not as extensive). And after several hours of coding and testing I'm kind of wanting to sell it. However it seems to me that the original theme is GPL licensed. So I'm wondering if it is legal for me to sell it and keep it under the GPL license or not? (If not I'll just give it away as a freebie to promote my website.)
 
Reporting back! I should probably come clean and announce that I actually have very little knowledge of web development, I'm actually more into video game development. However, since using Wordpress for the first time over the last 48 hours (and I pick things up really quickly) I've come to realise just how limiting WP and WP themes really are. Is there really no way of adding and editing custom pages with html outside of the Wordpress instalment? It just seems to me that everything is build based on templates in php which seems to make things ridiculously difficult when I want to change the most simple of elements with beginner style html editing.

I've tried using CSS as a work around but it's not an ideal solution.
 
Reporting back! I should probably come clean and announce that I actually have very little knowledge of web development, I'm actually more into video game development. However, since using Wordpress for the first time over the last 48 hours (and I pick things up really quickly) I've come to realise just how limiting WP and WP themes really are. Is there really no way of adding and editing custom pages with html outside of the Wordpress instalment? It just seems to me that everything is build based on templates in php which seems to make things ridiculously difficult when I want to change the most simple of elements with beginner style html editing.

I've tried using CSS as a work around but it's not an ideal solution.

You can make changes to the files in Dream-weaver....which means you can play with the PHP AND CSS in DW and upload the changes to your server. Play with the database in WP (these are tricks i just recently learned).
 
It actually makes me mad that some companies are selling WP websites from Themeforest for $3-4k -- no customisation! Seriously. There is one company in Australia that does that and it makes me both LOL and also feel sorry for the poor customer who got majorly ripped off. But the amusing thing is that I heard that they may be getting sued because they ended up customising one of the sites for a client but the mobile section broke and they couldn't deliver. haha It's karma. ;)

On the other hand, it's ok to sell the themes even with some slight customisation for a decent price (as opposed to totally jacked up/rip off) and sell them on the value of this versus a totally custom website. There will be price differences. With the themes just make sure you have the license the resell or repurpose them.
 
It actually makes me mad that some companies are selling WP websites from Themeforest for $3-4k -- no customisation! Seriously. There is one company in Australia that does that and it makes me both LOL and also feel sorry for the poor customer who got majorly ripped off. But the amusing thing is that I heard that they may be getting sued because they ended up customising one of the sites for a client but the mobile section broke and they couldn't deliver. haha It's karma. ;)

On the other hand, it's ok to sell the themes even with some slight customisation for a decent price (as opposed to totally jacked up/rip off) and sell them on the value of this versus a totally custom website. There will be price differences. With the themes just make sure you have the license the resell or repurpose them.
What's the company called? I see companies here do it too - I called one of them out to see what they would say. I've seen more companies use the themes from Elegant Themes though. It doesn't make me mad that they do that, it makes me mad that they got in touch with the customer first!
 
Haha that's true. I won't say what the company is however they are using a non-custom theme for their company website.
 
good thread, subbed for reading later and will add my thoughts..
 
So do any of you guys say these are templates or lead them to believe they are custom websites? How do you state it in the contract/proposal?

With thousands of really great quality templates out there, it almost seems like a waste of time to do 100% custom designs for low paying clients (under $3k).

They are a custom website. You will be customizing the website for them. I do not agree that of you charge someone for a custom DESIGNED website that you pass a template or theme off as one. But any time you take something and customize the content, it is a custom website.

When you buy a custom home, you can buy one of the model homes they have, and have it customized to fit you needs, or they can bring in a architect to provide you with a custom DESIGN, and you can pay to build that. Guess which is cheaper.

Remember that in the real world there are designers, developers, and coders.

The designer designs the site for the client, the developer develops the features and the coder builds the thing.

I usually just work in the conversation that I have a number of proven formats that I use for small businesses. This limits the amount they can customize the website, but avoids bringing n a designer (and the associated costs). I offer to provide a designer if I cannot find a format they like that is good for SEO, at their expense, and invite them to check with other designers for their rates, as I am happy to work with any designer they choose.

It only takes one quote or phone call to a designer for them to see the value in a template or theme.

I point out that for most small businesses, an effective online presence is more important than a visually stunning website. The prettiest website you can build with award winning content will lose out to a more properly optimized website every time. It may not convert, but it will rank.

Needless to say you must adjust depending on what they do. A dentist does not need a work of art for a home page, a photographer does.

I, for one, avoid WP like the plague, with the exception of an attached blog. I build them if someone insists, but only after the fight.

Wordpress is a time consuming nightmare, and it gets worse as time goes on. It must be maintained, and if someone whose theme you re using does not update it, your customer is screwed. A misbehaving plugin or theme, or an un-updated installation can cause the whole site simply to display blank pages, and unless you check the site every day, you will not even know until you see the traffic and conversions fall off..

Add the general problems that come with WP, heavy serve resources, hackability and security issues, no real freedom in the design, the SEO nightmare it can cause, it is just a poor choice for a business website, unless you need a blog.

WP is a blogging platform, it has this one capability built into its core. Adding functionality to it with plugins is simply forcing it to do something that it was not desogned to do, and every plugin can have its own problems.

I have one idiot that insists on leaving comments turned on so his customers can communicate with him. He gets spammed to hell and back, and for some reason peiople use the comment box that he never checks when they want to contact him instead of going to the form. I quit doing his SEO over this, and I bet he has thousands of comments waiting moderation, along with a dozen missed customers, because he hasn't a clue what they are or how or what to do about it.

I honestly do not see why you would burden a customer you want to keep with such a beast unless they actually need it, nor why you would build systems that needs that much maintenance if you are the one who is going to have to do it the maintenance with an SEO contract.

There is one thing that has not been addressed here.

Give your customer what they need. Some businesses need a custom designed website to fit their business model. Some businesses need an online billboard to list hours and services.

If you customer needs an e-commerce site and you build it in WP,you have not delivered your customer what they need, you have delivered them the best you can come up with, which is a poor substitute.

I turn down or refer out the work rather than do that.
 
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Alright so I guess I can give folks a 2013 Update ... (if you didn't read my comment on this thread last year, you can read it => http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...dpress-themes-website-design.html#post4127386)

I no longer use Themeforest or any template themes PERIOD!!! I bought the Developers version of Headway Themes ($174 one time) and just use the Grid, for the basic site layout and the Live CSS for the actual design itself. So I'm able to give a more customized design to clients (yet still use Wordpress).

As a result, I've been able to increase my rates from the $600 to $3000 range, that I was charging in 2012 to now $3000 to $15000 (yes you're reading that correctly.) That being said I have expanded my clientele from just small businesses to now include start-ups and mid-size businesses ($1 to $5 million revenues annually).

Also, thanks to Linkedin, I was contracted by Microsoft, for a 3 month Wordpress consultant contract for their Yammer service. I was even able to take a 2 month break to work for the Obama campaign, thanks to my outsource team I've built. So this is doable and is scalable ... you just have to do it and not make excuses. If you read this and feel that I'm just bragging, I apologize but just want those who were worried and scared to understand what is achievable.
 
This thread is right up my ally but I'm wondering what local business templates do you guys recommend?
 
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