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Remote DSL?

Discussion in 'Proxies' started by wiredmom, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. wiredmom

    wiredmom Executive VIP

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    Remote DSL dot com has sold to some other company but its still up and running.
    Here's my question. Why would that service be useful - as opposed to a cheap vps somewhere?
    The cost for the remote dsl is 200/month. Whereas a vps can be 20 bucks a month.

    Anyone can clue me in? I was thinking of setting up a canadian version but I can't figure out for the life of me why it would be preferred over a vps.
     
  2. justone

    justone Elite Member

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    It has a few advantages and disadvantages:

    Pro:
    1) Your external IP will be a DSL IP, you look like a normal user as you have a dynamic hostname at a mainstream ISP.
    This is good for affiliate stuff, paypal, basically everything where humans verify your identity and don't like to see a proxy.
    2) You can change the IP as it is dynamic, a VPS provides you with the same IP/IPs. So depending on the ISP you got 10k+ IPs you can take and look natural. VPS will always look like a proxy/private proxy.

    Cons:
    1) The bandwidth is usually limited a lot.
    Depends on the DSL contract but almost always you have a limited uplink and big downlink speed. That's good for you but if you want to be a proxy you actually are limited by the uplink (so your speed is capped).
    2) No real anonymity, whatever you do stay on the legal border side and don't cause damages to companies that might sue you
    3) You can change your IP but you can not regain the previous IP. Depending how much you change it this can be a problem depending on circumstances.
    4) Your IP stays in the same segments and your host stays at the same provider of course. Craigslist as example is known to temp PVA-ban DSL ISPs if they abuse a lot. So in worst case your ISP becomes banned and you sit on a 200$ contract until the ban is lifted.


    I probably missed a few points but that might help you a bit.

    P.S.
    Maybe one more point: I heard it can take months until you receive remote-dsl access after ordering, keep that in mind or inquiry.
     
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  3. persyme

    persyme Regular Member

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    That's the question I've been trying to find out:
    What is the difference seen by a server/website (and/or in headers seen) between a normal person with a dynamic hostname at a mainstream ISP versus a proxy/private proxy?

    How can websites distinguish between the two, or can they?



    I believe webstes can easily distinguish between the two and I think they are using methods more and more often in order to distinguish between the two and that's why so many people are now finding their proxies/private proxies and applications that rely on these proxies not being as efficient as they once were.

    Am I right in assuming this?

    If so what are these methods websites are using to distinguish between a normal person with a dynamic hostname at a mainstream ISP versus a proxy/private proxy, and what can be done to bypass those methods?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2009
  4. justone

    justone Elite Member

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    To give you an overview on how they catch proxies:
    Easiest ways are IP blacklisting and HTTP Header checking.

    Many (HTTP) proxies add HTTP headers and/or hide specific HTTP headers, looking for that reveals a lot of proxies.

    The next approach is using blacklists, simply match the incoming IP against known abusers and known proxy networks. So major proxy providers as well as major datacenters are detected (they do not provide ISP services, all IPs from there are from servers).

    Next approach is a commercial geo IP database which contains network speed, if speed is 100mbps+ it is likely a proxy.

    So these were the main approaches used to detect proxies by automated means.


    When we look at banks, e-payment sites or affiliate sites (basically all that is handling real money) then it becomes harder.
    These companies do not only rely on the automated detection they also have human staff that verifies the accounts.
    By using a private proxy you often PASS through the automated checks as long as the proxy is well set up and not part of a blacklist yet.
    But the human verification will easily detect it as proxy.

    Most times by the hostname (as example recently I was helping a customer of rcom to solve his troubles and the hostname of the proxy was indian (.in) ).
    The hostname of a major DSL/cable provider is usually easy to detect and it has a proper reverse zone setup.
    The hostname of a private proxy is either a server hostname, is missing, lacking reverse checks or is using domains that are no mainstream ISPs.

    Actually you probably can detect > 90% of all private proxies by looking at the hostname.
    Geoip databases do the rest.

    The evil part about this is that human verification is asychronous to the signup process. Paypal as example is known to limit accounts when you try to withdraw a larger sum. Affiliate companies do the same, they wait until you want money and then they boot your ass;)
    I guess this is calculation as most of the banned accounts have considerable money on them and the action is not disputed or brought to court. A lot of $$ get lost.



    A dynamic hostname from a main ISP usually can't be detected as proxy by human eyes.
     
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  5. wiredmom

    wiredmom Executive VIP

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    Thanks justone.
    I clued in while I was driving to the border. Must of been the morning sleepies fogging my brain. 1 IP versus unlimited. So its far superior to a proxy, private proxy or VPS. Hence pricey.

    I'm sure 200 is overpricing it.
    I'd think with a 300 setup, that would cover the cost of installing the phone line, dsl account setup and ~maybe~ PC purchase - as it doesnt need to be a beast. A P4 would do. Easy enough to get those cheap in bulk..So 300 setup then 100 a month - no..150 a month. Need profit in there somewhere. heh. That'd work I think. I don't know if there is a market for it though - not for Canadian. American maybe. Hm. I could do American maybe. oooo fun!
     
  6. persyme

    persyme Regular Member

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    Thanks! That's exactly the information I was looking for and exactly the methods I figured websites were using to match against incoming requests for certain things to their sites.

    These methods are indeed being used by many websites, (namely cl as of recently), and this is the problem so many people are having lately with their ads being posted using proxies and/or private proxies.


    So are you're saying that with remote dsl service makes you look like a normal user, as you have a dynamic hostname at a mainstream ISP, whereas a vps you will always look like a proxy/private proxy, correct?



    I have a couple questions regarding these proxy identification methods:

    - How do proxies "add HTTP headers" (what do they add?) and how can these headers be detected?

    - What is "proper reverse zone setup"? Do you mean matching rDNS lookup? Or do you mean IP location look up?

    - Hostname is usually the external IP address (for people with an ISP service), correct? Isn't that for most people also the ISP (DSL/cable provider) or is it a more external IP address?

    - Are the hostnames of private proxies always a server hostname? Are they always lacking the proper reverse checks and/or rDNS look up?

    - Regarding "if speed is 100mbps+ it is likely a proxy", I use cable high speed - wouldn't it be at least as fast?



    What kind of proxy or anonymising service can bypass and/or provide proper HTTP Header checking (as a normal user), that will not show as private proxies/proxies, datacenters or servers?

    Are there any services that provide proxy/anonymising type services that will come across as a normal person with a dynamic hostname at a mainstream ISP (that don't show as datacenters or servers)?


    Are there any proxy services that aren't a server hostname and that also provides proper reverse checks or rDNS look ups?
    - I'm not as concerned about location (except that's they're U.S. proxies) as I am about hostname and rDNS look up).


    Your service seems to provide these things mentioned above, correct? (I hope it's alright to ask this here).
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2009
  7. persyme

    persyme Regular Member

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    Addendum:

    looking over my question it appears as though I'm asking about the most basic things about headers. Just so you know I'm aware of what headers consist of.

    My main question is are there any proxy services (private proxy services) that provide the necessary information in the headers where the hostname is not a server but rather a more mainstream ISP, and it would have a proper rDNS lookup (and possibly a proper IP location search look up)?


    Thanks again.


     
  8. justone

    justone Elite Member

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    Welcome

    wiredmom:
    They just need one PC for a hundred users or similar. Most routers have a NIC anyway so a good switch will do it. Also they are good customers, likely no setup fee from their side.
    200/month is pretty expensive for a DSL if you consider the speed is probably pretty low because of the limited uplink (dunno if they provide higher uplink through their own connection).

    You probably got way less than 100mbps. I dunno of course ;)

    -----

    persyme:

    Yes I was talking about rdns, hostname needs to resolve to IP and IP to hostname.
    I know no proxy provider except these remote DSL ones that can provide a valid looking hostname/IP.

    A bit shameless self promotion:
    Cloakfish does offer a pretty large number of dynamic IP addresses but from their nature not exclusive like a remote DSL of course.
     
  9. persyme

    persyme Regular Member

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    Hey don't worry about the self promotion. I asked about your service in my post:
    "Your service seems to provide these things mentioned above, correct? (I hope it's alright to ask this here)."

    I know I've asked you several questions about Cloakfish but my problem in understanding the proxies/IPs it provides was my problem.

    By seeing your response to "wiredmom's" question above I knew exactly what to ask and how to put it into the right words.

    Thanks to you you've provided the answers I've been searching for for a good while now. Thank you!

    So IPs/proxies(a pretty large number) provided by Cloakfish have headers that show dynamic hostnames at mainstream ISPs (that don't show as datacenters or servers), set up with proper reverse checks or rDNS look ups, correct?

    That's the kind of IP/proxy service I'm looking for.

    Exclusive is if only I use them, correct? I don't need them to be exclusive, just that the IPs match the requirements above.


    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2009
  10. justone

    justone Elite Member

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    Yea a good part of the nodes are comcast and similar.

    If you got more questions on that topics just shoot, happy to help;)
     
  11. Lutherblissett

    Lutherblissett Power Member

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    I hate to bump and old thread. . . but I'd like to give some info on exactly what 'the new' remote dsl does.. . and its limitations, hence wiredmom if you can create what 'the old' remote dsl' did then $200 is not too pricey.

    The new remote dsl offers you 'For $50 a month more' a remote desktop with access to switch your IP through the router. . with this you can get a pool of IP addresses that are very natural looking, cause that is just what they are.

    The old remote dsl offered two things (one extremely crucial) that are no longer on the system. First the old system offered a macro script that simplified the process of swapping the IP to a simple f12 button press. With this you can do a lot more. Button press within 30 sec. fresh new IP. This is not a big deal. . .you just build your own macro or auto hotkey it.

    The critical thing missing is that the old remote dsl linked together a number of ISP blocks somehow, and you paid for your monthly line subscription. Thus there were a number of subnet IP blocks on the system. Therefore when i forced an IP a brand new one came up that was not linked with much tracability by any website. I was getting a number of different A and B class IPs

    With the new system your stuck within a range of IPs say 93.126.88.1 - 93.126.96.114
    Now you get a few thousand IPs out of this . . but guess what . . you can see a pattern very easy.

    I'm searching for a system that allows a way to grab a much wider range of IPs within a network. . or someone who has knowledge on to do this, or what ISP combined with what router works to do this best. I want a system like old remotedsl that gives brand new A and B class IPs often.

    This is killing me right now. . . someone please respond with a solution. If its a new service already doing this fine. . . if its a way to grab new a and b class IP's with a forced IP switch with a tweak great. . . if it is knowledge of a certain ISP provider mixed with a certain router that offers a non predictable range . . .etc. you get the point