Programming for someone else is not enough

Pursuing career in the world of software is not enough in my opinion.

It feels like you are limited to someone's idea and you can't really make much use of your real power.

I don't know if it's just me or it is due to my entrepreneural attitude, but programming for myself is much more productive, easier and satisfying.

When doing it for someone, I would just not feel like learning framework technologies just to get my work delivered. I couldn't stand that idea of learning for someone. And many seem to quit because they feel like programming is only useful in a 9-5 job.

Post your thoughts. Thanks.

This is quite true. I myself is a software engineer most of the time settled to the company's requirements. However I do code off work also as a freelancer and for my own self learning. Hoping to have something of my own within the next years.

Outsource programming for others, keep programming for yourself.

LemonAcid said:

Outsource programming for others, keep programming for yourself.

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This sounds interesting to me cause I saw how easy it is do to outsourcing business in IT.

It's solving someone's problems using some workforce and not your own capability. So I feel like I would like to start a venture like that, but I'm not sure if I'd really be capable.

Those outsourcing companies really struggle to get good developers. And so it's a business full of issues and looking for more people willing to work for less.

Im sure a lot of developers here resonate with this thought.

When I’m building my own software I enjoy development much more due to having 100% control on what I want to work on & languages, frameworks I want to choose etc. to get the job done.

When your working for a company they decide all that.

Yes it can suck to work on something your not interested in but if it pays the bills just get it done. It should also motivate you to freelance or build a saas that will allow you to build what you want full time.

Knxtt said:

Im sure a lot of developers here resonate with this thought.

When I’m building my own software I enjoy development much more due to having 100% control on what I want to work on & languages, frameworks I want to choose etc. to get the job done.

When your working for a company they decide all that.

Yes it can suck to work on something your not interested in but if it pays the bills just get it done. It should also motivate you to freelance or build a saas that will allow you to build what you want full time.

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So mid level jobs in my country were priced at $1500. That's some real low commission. But hey. I can use this cheaper workforce and get some US projects.

I don't hope for anything or think that it will be easy, but maybe I will make my way if I push hard on the networking.

Sometimes it can spin out of your control and you will feel like being managed by your client and this is unconvenient but big Money is inside.

It's hard but money making is my main occupation right now. And I think I could utilize more of my power by doing it like that.

Maybe 30 or 40 or 50 years ago working for someone and not complaining was the right thing to do.

At that time you would be grateful for working with computers, but now it's different. I think it's just too easy to enter it by something like web development.

You can make some stupid mistakes.
And I saw a ton of them in my short career.

I think I could go hard and give 60% of the money acquired to developers. Even 70% for dev and 30% for me share seems fair.

I saw someone doing it at 70 (for himself) and 30 for dev. It sucked.
I know I could get twice as much money and it's easy to let the greed in.
Anyways I believe by being good to people, they will be grateful, more productive and happier.

Let's be honest. My life has to be unpredictive. I must take the risk. This is what makes you win!

I worked as a dev for a couple of years and in IM for a good while now so I'd say I have a take on this.

And it's entirely situational. If you're writing code for yourself you also have to be able to market whatever your product or service is. This is not a small difference.

I know a couple of devs working for an employer and they'll make more than a lot of BHW members without the stress of being responsible for the business side of things.

I've told 7 figure marketers to stop wasting their time learning to code and just outsource it and I tell devs to partner with a marketer to sell their shit. They've very different skill sets and I don't know many who can do both.

Somewhere in the middle of that is freelancing. As long as you're good enough to find the clients, you get more control over the projects you work on and the prices you charge. If you want to code and you don't want an employer, that's what I'd do.

SEOMadHatter said:

I worked as a dev for a couple of years and in IM for a good while now so I'd say I have a take on this.

And it's entirely situational. If you're writing code for yourself you also have to be able to market whatever your product or service is. This is not a small difference.

I know a couple of devs working for an employer and they'll make more than a lot of BHW members without the stress of being responsible for the business side of things.

I've told 7 figure marketers to stop wasting their time learning to code and just outsource it and I tell devs to partner with a marketer to sell their shit. They've very different skill sets and I don't know many who can do both.

Somewhere in the middle of that is freelancing. As long as you're good enough to find the clients, you get more control over the projects you work on and the prices you charge. If you want to code and you don't want an employer, that's what I'd do.

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Damnit. I would like to work on some complex (or simple) business solutions. But at the same time I would need some workforce.
I've seen in real life that sometimes it's not only about finding the client.
It's equally difficult to find a good developer.

It's not like I have came up with this idea of being self-employeed and that I am just complaining.
It's the only thing that makes sense in my case.
I have too much experience in marketing to just let it go and pretend I am a developer.

In the future I would call myself product owner, product developer, solution architect or just simply CEO.

I haven't found a single client in my life. But the same goes for developer search.
I found that the easiest way to find a client is by networking.
So I will have to do a lot of networking.

I'm a little bit over 20 years old. So I feel a little bit hyped, but I surely need a way to not live like an average Joe Smith on his couch with a TV pilot in his hand.
Which I tried and it just didn't fit me! At all! I would be complaining about being an average Joe more than about my jobs haha.

SEOMadHatter said:

I know a couple of devs working for an employer and they'll make more than a lot of BHW members without the stress of being responsible for the business side of things.

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crnack said:

So mid level jobs in my country were priced at $1500. That's some real low commission. But hey. I can use this cheaper workforce and get some US projects.

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"Get some US projects" is of course my daydream, but trying doesn't hurt. Wasting countless hours does, but I believe I can be clever enough to not do it.

I have plenty of friends who done what you're talking about. If you're from Russia, Ukraine or Belarus it should work well if you have a lot of dev friends and you have some really interesting benefits( besides the money). Nowadays it's much harder to find great devs than clients. Wish you luck, it's not an easy money for sure!

Luke22 said:

I have plenty of friends who done what you're talking about. If you're from Russia, Ukraine or Belarus it should work well if you have a lot of dev friends and you have some really interesting benefits( besides the money). Nowadays it's much harder to find great devs than clients. Wish you luck, it's not an easy money for sure!

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My friends are already working for someone else. That's the scary part.
But they would like to have their own firms too. Why wouldn't they?
They just don't want to be so dedicated.

What will be your advantage to get some senior devs? As far as i can see this business model works in the way when you have several experienced architects and a bunch of juniors/trainees who do all the dirt work. What you think about it? How did you planning to build it?

crnack said:

But they would like to have their own firms too. Why wouldn't they?

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Not everyone is made to be a businessman, some are just good workers and fine with it.

PushKing said:

Not everyone is made to be a businessman, some are just good workers and fine with it.

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Hahaha. I loved this comment. You probably realize why. In my mind you implied I am a businessman. Which is a great compliment!

Luke22 said:

What will be your advantage to get some senior devs? As far as i can see this business model works in the way when you have several experienced architects and a bunch of juniors/trainees who do all the dirt work. What you think about it? How did you planning to build it?

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I think there needs to be one architect and 2 or 3 devs. It's enough to manage a single outsourced project.
It won't make much money, but will be probably enough to build some portfolio and in 2 or 3 years get profit.

Well, of course I would help those guys and learn with them cause I'm a developer myself which makes me understand this thing a little bit better.
I'm not only in for the money, but I want to have as much as I can from this.
Of course 9-5 doesn't give me as much as I want. It could, but that would not be just a 9-5, but some kind of a parntership or joint venture.

crnack said:

In my mind you implied I am a businessman. Which is a great compliment!

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I actually didn't. What I meant is that some people are fine with 9 to 5, if that's a compliment, its even better - live's so easy these days .

PushKing said:

I actually didn't. What I meant is that some people are fine with 9 to 5, if that's a compliment, its even better - live's so easy these days .

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Well. I could be in 9-5 in the upper management or as c-level. Otherwise it's just a job.
However the one-upmanship is big and it's really difficult to get there.
At this level I don't think it differs that much from running the company yourself.
So I would rather build everything myself than depend on someone's success.

being comfortable with 9-5 job is imo one of the biggest traps of moder lifestyle. if you settle with it for more than 6-7 years, you're flushing your future and time down the drain.

crnack said:

Well. I could be in 9-5 in the upper management or as c-level. Otherwise it's just a job.
However the one-upmanship is big and it's really difficult to get there.
At this level I don't think it differs that much from running the company yourself.
So I would rather build everything myself than depend on someone's success.

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Totally agree, the question is can you depend on yourself? This is why there are many employees and not too many entrepreneurs. Best of luck

better to be a high value IC instead of management. Once you're senior enough you don't code much anymore and just architect systems.

PushKing said:

Totally agree, the question is can you depend on yourself? This is why there are many employees and not too many entrepreneurs. Best of luck

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While building own business, one can forget to leave their house and breathe fresh air.
There is certainly self-management practice and routine needed.
Sometimes it feels like being in military, but that is what I like about it.

This might seem absurdic to compare, but having a child would be huge responsibility.
You know, a single mistake and your child may be seriously wounded.
Running a company is probably similar.

I believe it'd be a great motivation for me.
I don't want to have kids at this time.
And I wouldn't like to have kids unless I would be established and developed myself.