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Preventing/fighting paypal chargebacks forFALSE unauthorized payments

Discussion in 'Making Money' started by MetalMan390, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. MetalMan390

    MetalMan390 Regular Member

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    I have a membership site that sells a digital product. While paypal always sides with the seller on the sale of digital goods (because intangible items are not covered for protection), chargebacks are not covered. Sometimes buyers will log in and use our service but then file an unauthorized payment chargeback. I have successfully fought 2 or 3 unauthorized payment charges, in the instances where the buyer was dumb enough to email us first, then file the unathorized payment charge. In these cases, I have my statcounter logs and the email from the buyer with the buyer's IP, matching the statcounter logs. I send this to paypal and if the evidence is there, you CAN WIN these unauthorized payment chargebacks.

    Now, what I want to do is figure out a way to make the buyer verify the he or she is the person making the purchase and they themselves are the ones authorizing it. I was thinking about adding some type of page that shows up before (or after?) payment, and basically have the buyer fill out some type of form/agreement before they use our service, but I haven't yet been able to figure out what exactly to write/ask the buyer that would actually be enough evidence in case of an unauthorized payment chargeback. Hopefully this makes sense. Any input is welcome.
     
  2. MarkWW

    MarkWW Regular Member UnGagged Attendee

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    Make your customers submit a landline phone number, then make phone verification. A legitimate buyer wouldn't mind a 20 seconds phone call. And be careful some people would use skype for this purpose, so make sure its a landline phone number, a number that exists in public phone directories.
     
  3. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    After receiving notification from PayPal about the payment, confirm the order with the customer requiring them to forward you a copy of the receipt supplied to them by PayPal. Explain in your order confirmation that you require this in order for you to continue processing, and that it is a policy in effect to ensure that no one is fraudulently using their PayPal account or other financial information in the event that they are unregistered with PP. Make sure they respond from the email indicated on your PayPal notification. In the event of a charge back, the burden is then on the fraudster to explain lots of things that they simply not going to be able to.

    Additionally, you can add a "click here to confirm your order" in your confirmation email, and have them enter more information on the page you create for that. You'll get a secondary logging of their IP; and since most of these people are hopelessly retarded, their real IP in the event that they visited your site on a proxy.

    If you get an order from someone that is not registered with PayPal, just sit on it for 5 days if there are other indicators of a potential fraud.

    Have a thank you page: when using PayPal while on a proxy, 9 times out of 10, that proxy is stripped upon redirect to your thank you page revealing one's actual IP. PayPal also logs this, and almost always triggers that potential fraud mail that they send.

    I have fought well over 400 chargebacks with this system and never not gotten my money in the end.

    I would also recommend GetClicky for anlaytics: They have a brilliant real time system that makes fraudulent activity stick out like a sore thumb.
     
  4. 2011nfl

    2011nfl Supreme Member

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    That wouldn't work, because 99% of people use cell phones now. I might try something where they have to scan 2 forms of id and send you the copies.
     
  5. aftershock2020

    aftershock2020 Senior Member

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    To counter this, I have my ' thank you page ' as an actual form that states that they have agreed to this purchase and to accessing this page voluntarily of their own free will and understnading that this is a digital item and to proceed past this point will confirm and complete the sale.

    This also states that they have a full 24 hours to properly refund from the time of downloading, after that, there are no refunds due to you keeping the product for longer than the 24 hour refund trial period, you agree to keep the product permanently.

    Under that, there are two buttons, one is an email form and submit button. The second being a cancel button, that links them to the cancel/return to previous action. This is all with an automatic checkbox with the standard " I have read, understand and agree to these terms and policies and to voluntarily complete this purchase transaction. " statement.

    If they enter an email and click the submit, the link is sent to their email and they are then tracked for the access of the view and download with a timestamp stat log.

    Once they do that I have them and paypal has NEVER completed a chargeback since.

    Important!!! : This is only one method of doing this and you can ofcourse customize it to anyway you want to use it but whatever you put in the terms must be clearly stated and on that thankyou page...not hidden or in tiny print.

    Mine, for example has " PLEASE READ COMPLETELY BEFORE SUBMITTING FOR PRODUCT DOWNLOAD LINK!!! " and 97% of the people that hit that page never stay on more than a minute.

    Next, in the email that they get, there are two clearly marked links...

    1. thanks for purchasing product, here is your download link.

    2. if you have any questions, comments, problems/issues, refund requests, feedback, here is the place to do it.

    They take them to the download page or the support contact form area, where they can select the action they want to send from that form. This also timestamps and dates when it was sent/received.

    Finally, there is a confirmation email sent out immediately for whichever response is done. If they download it, the clock starts and 24 hours later, an additional email is sent to let them know again ' just a quick note to say thank you for your purchase how much we appreciate your choice to keep and use out product through the 24 hour, risk free trial period...and here's another offer to look at. '

    Keep it clean and keep it honest. The only way that anyone will win this claim against you is if they actually request a refund from you within the time allowed. If they do, so what. I remove link access to their unique generated download link and move on to the next.

    In my experience with affiliate marketing streams, using this method has taken my refund rate from over 30%, back down to 7%.

    This is completely legal, as it is clearly posted and their choice to go through with it or not. I've only had 14 chargebacks over the last 2 years with people trying to buy and then rip me off by using a chargeback instead of a refund request and I've won EVERY time due to this method right here.

    Keep it simple, keep it clean and keep it directly in the open. If they buy, they keep the product and your keep your profits and your rep with your merchant and the affiliate product owners.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. wannabie

    wannabie Elite Member

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    Refunds and chargebacks are part of business so deal with it or get a paper round

    If you're getting a large numberb of chargebacks then you might want to look into making your sales pitch clearer?

    At the end of the day it's purely down to some buyers are shits and that's part of life and business
     
  7. MarkWW

    MarkWW Regular Member UnGagged Attendee

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    Mind if I ask about the price of your product?
     
  8. MetalMan390

    MetalMan390 Regular Member

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    Just to clarify, you have fought 400+ chargebacks with your method and it has not once worked for you? Or did you mean to say that you've gotten your money back every time?


    Thanks aftershock, that's some good info. I will definitely look into implementing something like what you are describing!

    It's $19.95
     
  9. MarkWW

    MarkWW Regular Member UnGagged Attendee

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    MetalMan, if I were you I'd use sms verification. Here is why
    I know now many cases of fraud when people use Skype for phone verification, well with skype you cannot receive SMS.
    So if you have that verified, then you defiantly have a valid cell phone that you can track in case of fraud.
    PS: You will drastically reduce charge backs and fraudulent orders with this kind of verifications, try it for a week and you will see the difference.
     
  10. Scripteen

    Scripteen Elite Member

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    Make sure you deliver the expected product as described and on time. Don't deal with high risk buyers like selling cracked software and such because charge backs in these niches are high. Give the buyer what he exactly expected from your sales page and no problems will occur.

    Now to an extra step to avoid freebie hunters, Use a shopping cart that supports fraud checking with a service like "MaxMind" that detects and blocks orders with a proxy, free email, high risk country and does phone verification. You won't regret that.
     
  11. santhoshk

    santhoshk Newbie

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    what to do as a buyer to get refund for intangible items from the seller who was a scammer?i'm facing the similar situation now i have disputed his 4 transactions as one is item not as described and other 3 as item not received.immediately the seller has wriiten that the prdoucts are intangible items.so i have escalated to paypal claim there also the seller delivered tracking information as digital access for non receipt item and also sent the information for item not as described dispute.within 1 day the dispute of item not as described was came in favour of seller.for the not received disputes paypal status shows "requiring ur action"
    Status

    The seller has responded to our request for tracking information. We haven't confirmed the tracking information yet but wanted to share it with you.




    • Digital Service tracking # Digital Purchase

    can any one tell how should i get for atleast these 3 non receipt disputes?
     
  12. santhoshk

    santhoshk Newbie

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    Hi i have bought some services in a site.but they did not delivered what i have ordered.so i disputed 4 transactions through paypal as one is item not as described and other 3 as item not received.immediately the seller has wriiten that the prdoucts are intangible items.so i have escalated to paypal claim there also the seller delivered tracking information as digital access for non receipt item and also sent the information for item not as described dispute.within 1 day the dispute of item not as described was came in favour of seller.for the not received disputes paypal status shows "requiring ur action"
    Status

    The seller has responded to our request for tracking information. We haven't confirmed the tracking information yet but wanted to share it with you.




    • Digital Service tracking # Digital Purchase

    can any one tell how should i get for atleast these 3 non receipt disputes?
     
  13. Scripteen

    Scripteen Elite Member

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    You can never win an "item not as described" dispute as a buyer as paypal can never verify if the item was as described or not. For the "item not received" disputes you will mostly get your money back specially that the seller never provided a tracking number.
     
  14. Exaggerated

    Exaggerated BANNED BANNED

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    At the site pcgamesupply.com, when you make a purchase, it is also acknowledging the costumers that they authorized the payment. In that way the company will reduce the chargebacks and unauthorized payment claims by 60-70%
     
  15. santhoshk

    santhoshk Newbie

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    if the seller provides the tracking number as digital purchase would i get refund?
     
  16. krishnaverma

    krishnaverma Power Member

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    You can ask them to send a scanned id proof with the name identical to that in the Paypal. SMS verification is also an option and you can get it integrated easily by any expert.