Posts About Karma and Morality

I have noticed a steady rise in the number of posts about people complaining of peoples morals and ethics of methods and what they do.

I just get a little bit pissed off with people when they do this, chances are they are just doing this to raise their post count.

We are in a black hat forum, everything from bending small rules, to outright fraud goes on here, you can all dodge around the issues, but its the truth. Now if you have strong morals and believe in karma and all that stuff, good for you, you don't need to spread your opinions on that here, its up to each individual to look at their own morals. i.e.

Don't Start Lecturing People On Karma!!!


Some Examples:






Now the way most people follow karma, they do it in an almost religious way and they try to force their beliefs on other people. This isn't a place to discuss morals and ethics, we are here to make money, if what we do here is too "evil" for you how about you try out DP I hear they have a really active community, they share loads of useful methods, and all of the members make lots of money...

I agree...some people get a little too preachy. I mean, this is BHW, not Church. I find myself a bit in the middle. It's about finding ways to make money that are a little sneaky. It's a huge grey area. Rather than worry about karma, member here should be more concerned about things like getting accounts / ips banned...IMO its best to worry about nothing, and be safe while you work your craft. Nobody wants to look over their shoulder.

Even if my methods are a bit deceptive, guess what? Thats the way the world is, big companies fuck people over all the time... I don't feel bad about it all, I am moving money and helping the economy. I don't do anything that is fraudulent though, but I am not going to lecture those who do... So I definitely agree

I've been waiting a very long time for someone to make a thread like this, but I have always thought that if I started one I would get flamed and told to GTFO of BHW.

*Disclaimer* Before I get flamed, I want to say that I consider myself a thief for cookie stuffing, a scammer for incentivizing leads with false promises, and thus, I have no right to criticize others in regards to morality and ethics. I accept that my blackhat activities essentially make me a bad person.


I find it ridiculous that so many hypocrites on BHW think that their blackhat leads and methods aren't some form of fraud or theft. Now don't get me wrong, I am very blackhat when it comes to tricking people with false promises, but I completely acknowledge that when I do that, I am scamming. I know most people aren't willing to accept themselves as a scammer, but yet they continue ewhoring and framing email submits.

So my real question is, what is the BHW definition of a scammer?

Personally, I think it is anyone who takes advantage of someone else for personal gain, while the other party loses something. That being said, when I never give people the stuff I promise in return for them completing my offer, I am essential scamming. I get the profit, the "lead" gets charged, and the CPA gets an uninterested lead. Is this not the most basic of blackhat techniques? How can one justify this very common blackhat method as NOT being a scam? Usually when people post methods like this they are praised as a creative black hatter. So where exactly is the line between the two?

I saw a thread where someone was complaining that an angry Craigslist user was posting counter ads exposing his blackhat method. Interestingly, everyone called that Craigslist user, who was trying to warn the community, a prick and a no-life. Then, when one BHW members mentioned that what the Craigslist user was doing was justifiable since the blackhatter was essentially scamming, all the other BHW users told that member to stop being a douche bag to the OP. What the hell? Just because we are blackhatters doesn't mean that we have to have this false sense of self-righteousness; we should atleast acknowledge that what we are doing is wrong! The OP was impersonating a company promising to pay "testers" who would then buy the trial product. Of course those "testers" never received their compensation pay. What if you walked into a store that promised that if you bought an expensive phone you would another one free. And as soon you bought the phone, they completely ignored you about the second one and said the offer never existed. Would you call that a scam and say fuck you guys! You are horrible people taking advantage of us customers with lies! Or would you say, damn, that was some good black hat marketing. I think us blackhatters should at least look at our victims perspectives. Can you honestly call yourself a good guy for doing something like that?

Also, am I the only person who thinks that WE are thieves for iframing email submits and cookie stuffing? We get paid and the companies lose money spent on undeserved commission. Isn't this parasitic relationship similar to a store and shoplifters?

Yet when someone like say Jaeden/Arthas takes money from other BHW users he is defined as an real thief. Arthas took money for a product that he did not deliver. Arthas gets money; buyer loses money, and gets absolutely nothing in return. That sounds really similar to the relationship between iframing affiliates and a CPA network. Does that mean that a scammer is only someone who takes advantage of BHW members? I know for sure that no one here has remorse for taking advantage of stupid DP and WF members.

I want to mention again that I do not think that I am ethically above any other black hatters, or any other internet marketers in general. I just wanted to explain that I realize that most of what I am doing is wrong, and thus, it would be ridiculous to criticize other people without realizing my own faults. I just hope that other people can realize the dishonest things WE are doing, and stop even mentioned karma and morals.

What I REALLY wanted to say (but am still a little afraid of) is that we black hatters are essentially scammers and thieves! (With the exception of blackhat SEOers maybe) So unless we define a clear line between scamming and blackhatting, we have no right to criticize others!

Sorry if I offended anyone, just wanted to vent my thoughts on the topic. Don't ban me from BHW please!


By the way, the basis of my observations are mainly from this BHW thread about a method: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...t-guide-i-made-8400-october-sells-699-dp.html

Basically what I am trying to say is:

Stuff that goes on here/What people do ranges from just bending the rules to breaking the law - be that stealing/fraud whatever...

Ethics shouldn't be a discussion when it comes to methods - you take them at face value, and unless you are really thick you will work out who is loosing out, now if you have ethics/morals don't get all pissy with the person who wrote it up, trying to preach to them, they are trying to help out our community.

On andres points - yes we are all con men/women, but you don't steal from people you know - i.e. members. Then its just your morals which dictate who you steal from.

Personally my 2 rule's are:

Steal from people who can afford it.
- big companies - egay for example
- gurus - they claim to make 100K a week there not gonna miss out on me buying there $10 ebook
- people who can afford it - i.e. I don't mind stealing from fat rich american housewives by selling them a crappy weight loss product.

Never Steal From Friends
- i.e. don't con friends/family or people on forums like this who help each other out.

Now, personally following these rules I can sleep well at night, but I don't go around flaming people for there lack of ethics that's just what they do.