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Positions Dropped Since Caffiene Update

Discussion in 'White Hat SEO' started by bopkins, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. bopkins

    bopkins Newbie

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    Hi,

    I'm a long time lurker and a first time poster, the forum has always offered very good advice and helped me out since I began over a year ago, so I am hoping you will be able to help me with my latest problem

    OK so about a year ago I started out with a nicely custom designed affiliate review site, with hand written copy plus nice pictures etc. within a few months I had managed to get the site onto the first page of G for my main keyword in my local market (UK),

    The content was nicely optimised and I had built backlinks with some blog commenting, article submissions, directories, blog links. A lot of which were packages I have bought from this forum

    It was making bank nicely so after a few more months I decided to go after another niche with the EXACT same template with newly hand written copy + images.

    I promoted the second site much the same way as the first site however the results weren't quite as good although it was making some money.

    Then just after Christmas I think G rolled out the new caffiene update and since then the ranking for my original site have dropped from position #4 to page 7, the ranking for second site have nearly dropped off the planet.

    I am hoping this may be some kind of google dance and in a week I will come back stonger than ever, however I have a feeling that this may be some kind of penalty due to the fact the sites are based on the same template and have VERY similar link patterns

    Now I before the sites dropped over christmas I had just spent a lot of time/money working on three more sites (based on the same review template) I am wondering if I start promoting these the same way the new sites will suffer the same fate.

    Has anyone experienced anything similar? Can anyone shed any light on what is going on here? Do you think I have been penalised?

    Many Thanks,
    B
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  2. oliver_winston

    oliver_winston Junior Member

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    Hi, I had a #7 ranking site removed completely. All of the links to the site were from blog comments.
     
  3. Micallef

    Micallef Supreme Member

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    My empire is pretty much supported by blog comments.

    70% of the rankings have had no change after Caffeine.

    30% of the rankings have increased after Caffeine.
     
  4. bopkins

    bopkins Newbie

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    Blog commenting only accounted for about 10% of my links, most were article submissions and web2.0 sites.

    I concerned that I have been penalised due to the fact I have used the same site template twice and the link profile is similar.
     
  5. OldMadHatter

    OldMadHatter Junior Member

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    we are working on caffeine analysis for over a week now for our plugin and SEO work.
    already identified at least one Google datacentre that holds the "fresh" index and uses Caffeine to push results, so we run most of our test queries against it.
    it seems content freshness is a very strong positive. irrelevant links are sanctioned. no special findings regarding the incoming from blog pages, although I expect that to loose some power.
    when we talk template from G's perspective, it does not refer to the script/layout of the website. think of all the blogs running k2, for example - it's irrelevant to downrank them if they have good content. or the blogger pages - that would be insane.
    template is closer to what we call a "footprint" and it does not refer only to the pages, but to incoming links as well. for example, having only comment backlinks and no twitter links is odd = identifiable footprint, reason to derank.
     
  6. zhwriter

    zhwriter Newbie

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    Google already sort of hinted that they are focusing more on updated content for sites. Sites that are periodically being updated with fresh content will move up the rankings. It depends on your competition. If you have a site that's not updated with new content compared to a site that's updated in the same niche for the same keyword with same or similar number/quality of backlinks, then that site will move up over yours. This has always been the case but the caffeine update appears to be shifting towards this more.

    There's also some talk of some micro-niche mini sites losing their rankings as well.
     
  7. Micallef

    Micallef Supreme Member

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    Can you provide evidence for this?

    I would like some more details on your conclusion here.
     
  8. bopkins

    bopkins Newbie

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    This is interesting, I would say the content on my sites is very much static. Perhaps I need to introduce more dynamic elements to site with an updated newsfeed
     
  9. OldMadHatter

    OldMadHatter Junior Member

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    @micallef hello, there!
    not the kind I can share on BHW. once I start running a charity and we stop caring about things like xrumer (hint), I would gladly do.
     
  10. pyronaut

    pyronaut Executive VIP

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    I dont have that much indepth analysis to share. But i do remember using the caffeine beta (When it wasnt fully rolled out). And comparing results.

    I think definitely there was a higher quality in caffeine. Places where i was "Linkwheeling" with squidoo's and even say feedagg and feedage. They were either dropped to second page (Squidoo, hubpage), or dropped out all together (All feeds). Whether that translates into less "weight" from these places i dont know.
     
  11. muchacho

    muchacho Supreme Member

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    Please can you share which DateCentre this is to fellow BlackHatters please.
     
  12. trophaeum

    trophaeum Senior Member

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    bwahahahaha caffeine likes my spammy sites better than the old engine :D

    note: i hardly, if ever, update the sites in question im talking about that have seen a major ranking boost
     
  13. Micallef

    Micallef Supreme Member

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    I am seeing exactly the same thing with my spammy sites.

    I'm making more money since the start of the new year, I can tell you that much. I presume it's down to caffeine.
     
  14. trophaeum

    trophaeum Senior Member

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    same, goog analytics tells me traffic is up, my income graphs are up and my serp positions are up... easy to work that one out :)
     
  15. Megalomaniac Midget

    Megalomaniac Midget Power Member Premium Member

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    the caffiene bot goes down on spammy auotgen sites like a crack whore. I've got a few sites banging out a post/minute per catergory & its nearly instant traffic for some search queries
     
  16. AgentOrange_MkUltra

    AgentOrange_MkUltra Junior Member

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    I tend to support the idea that mostly static sites supported just/ mostly by masses of random comments without elaborate patterns (eg link laundering), and by classic link trade (reciprocal) have lost some position and some traffic... For the rest it is not different from many other Google updates
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
  17. trophaeum

    trophaeum Senior Member

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    guys, directory submissions and the like seem to play more of a roll now than before, at least with the domains im seeing rank here and how its been effected (i did some lookin through my google analytics)
     
  18. mariobaez

    mariobaez Newbie

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    The web universe is expanding, making competition a lot heavier. Google is coordinating the more updated wave based on keyword. Instead of sites having keywords and then ranking for them, keywords themselves are ranked on relevance, how many times they are searched, trends etc.

    The algorithm is utilizing real-time data moreso now than ever before, since a lot of searches are based on real-time info ( ie: Conan O'Brien Said WHHAAA? ). It isn't that fresh content is more relevant, is that they attribute keyword results with the current trend.

    If a keyword, or combo, lets say " 1972 Sabres Hockey", isn't relevant, the algorithm presents the keyword as something to define it as historical, and websites that have information on "1972 Sabres Hockey" dominate the SERPs.

    But if ESPN has a story of the "1972 Sabres Hockey" team that dominated the NFL and had a former player pass away today, the trend will go up. From there, the algorithm changes the value of the "keyword" ( not the sites that associate with it; yet ), making it "active" or "non-historical".

    From there, it blows up the rankings and gives placement to new information about "1972 Sabres Hockey" ( since information created in 2006 most likely doesn't represent any current content on the keyword or why people are searching for it. ).

    Google will probably give props to old-school sites that add content about the issue. That is why you will see niche-blog sites, news sites, and wikipedia ( content storage, high-SERP clicks ) be on the top, as well the news feed.

    I am talking 90% bs, but all of this is based on my SEO readings, Cutts, my own failings, and my perception of how Google may coordinate real-time information simultaneously while the internet grows at a ridiculous clip.

    I am not an SEO guru; just wanted to throw this theory against the wall. Ya can clown me if you think I am way off.
     
  19. mariobaez

    mariobaez Newbie

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    I said NFL instead of NHL. Sorry, still bummed my team got bounced out of the playoffs.
     
  20. OldMadHatter

    OldMadHatter Junior Member

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    good approach by mariobaez, I like that. I confirm Squidoo pages being dropped severely.