Piracy?

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wildjokers

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Okay...here's a debatable question but...

What do you guys think about piracy or better yet, how do you feel about it?

I'm asking because of a project I'm working on and would like to hear your views.
 
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piracy as in attack somebody and grab everything you could get and then leave by setting the hole thing on fire, piracy?

or hang around piratebay piracy?
 
(Assuming it's hang around piratebay piracy)

I personally feel that people deserve to get paid for providing value to others. So if a product provides value to person X, then I feel that person X should pay for it. But person X should not have to pay in case the product is not useful for him/her.

Sure this implies that there's a huge grey area, but I feel that most people wouldn't mind paying for something that they have found useful.

As you rightly put - this is a debatable topic
 
It's outright theft, no bones about it.

Now, I haven't paid for an album or 75% of the movies I watch since I was about 16, but that doesn't mean I think music should be free. I'm a thief, and I don't want to pay. If the cops busted down my door right now for "felonious use of the bittorrent protocol" or some noise, I wouldn't go harping about how digital music should be free or my rights as a downloader, I'd say to myself "Well crap. Shouldn'tve gotten caught".

It's frankly disgusting to me that a large and vocal percentage of the file"sharing" community think they're Jr. Robin Hoods or something. If you're going to steal, just do it. Don't try to wrap some ridiculous ideology around it, just be honest with what you're doing. You're stealing, and it's against the law.

N
 
I'm not in favor of tying people up and making them walk off gangplanks on the high seas, nudged by sabers and taunts. I'm glad this custom has fallen into disuse.

Yo ho ho...
 
I am kind of a hypocrite I suppose. Bigger companies don't bother me, smaller ones do.
 
Ape wrapped it up well. Piracy is wrong, yes, but I hate when someone tries to be exaggerative and tries to make it right. It's basically stealing in a narrowed perspective. The same feeling you would you have if someone stole your car it shouldn't be different than stealing someone's software, etc. some people try to get out-of-context and try to develop a right to do piracy by blaming sources that are so irrelevant to the situation, i.e. the Gov't, education, etc. basically they find strife in society to have a reason to "return the favor". The most ignorant argument is "so what, the celebrities make millions" and such. That is the ignorant pirate and some pirates openly accept the ethics of their work. Like ape said, I think nothing is wrong unless its out-of-its-perspective. When you steal, accept it. You can't turn a dog into a cat.
 
Piracy... you mean like attacking a ship and stealing its merchandise? Yeah thats not nice...
Oh... I think you meant the "other kind" of piracy...
Well, here are my thoughts:
Well yes, its basically stealing, and its wrong to some extent.
But look around the forums... this is a BH forum. See what kind of ideas are presented here:
Info on making fake leads/signups using VCC
Info on abusing PPC vouchers
Info on how to spam Craiglist/myspace
Someone even made a thread on how to organise a click fraud ring.

Now tell me... thats not stealing? Thats not "breaking the rules"? Hey, I have NOTHING against those techniques presented in the forum, in fact I APPLY MANY of those myself.

Now why are those techniques considered "acceptable", at least in this forum?
Simple. The companies targeted already make billions. Plus, there is evidence many of them also act unethically (shaving leads, etc) CJ will not go belly up because a few dudes are sending garbage leads. Google will not be bankrupt because of a few "ringtones bandit" wannabes.
Much like Bill Gates wont become poor because some kid is downloading Windows Vista from torrents.

As for more specifically the topic of piracy, here are some thoughts as to WHY it happens.

- Many softwares cost FAR MORE than they are worth. Dont forget, some people, and many of our members here come from less wealthy countries, where even owning a computer is something few can accomplish.
Lets take a guy who lives in a country where the average income is $150/month... He managed to save money and buy a computer. Now hes doing blackhat, and making maybe $400/mth. By the standards in his country, thats really good.

Do you REALLY expect him to piss away $500 (which is more than he makes a month) on a copy of Microsoft Office, if the dude on the street is selling it on a burned cd for $4?

- Many products are simply garbage or do not live up to expectations. Case in point, many of the "Make money" ebooks selling for $120, are nothing more than rehashed info you can easily find yourself.
If they were sold for $7, that would be fine. But as long as this crap continues, those ebooks will keep ending up in the dloads section of BHW.

- Companies claim they lose "billions of dollars" due to piracy. This is not true. Most people who pirate things either cant afford or are unwilling to pay for the product's real price. If the pirated product would not be available, they simply wouldnt use it at all.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Piracy... you mean like attacking a ship and stealing its merchandise? Yeah thats not nice...
Oh... I think you meant the "other kind" of piracy...
Well, here are my thoughts:
Well yes, its basically stealing, and its wrong to some extent.
But look around the forums... this is a BH forum. See what kind of ideas are presented here:
Info on making fake leads/signups using VCC
Info on abusing PPC vouchers
Info on how to spam Craiglist/myspace
Someone even made a thread on how to organise a click fraud ring.

Now tell me... thats not stealing? Thats not "breaking the rules"? Hey, I have NOTHING against those techniques presented in the forum, in fact I APPLY MANY of those myself.

Now why are those techniques considered "acceptable", at least in this forum?
Simple. The companies targeted already make billions. Plus, there is evidence many of them also act unethically (shaving leads, etc) CJ will not go belly up because a few dudes are sending garbage leads. Google will not be bankrupt because of a few "ringtones bandit" wannabes.
Much like Bill Gates wont become poor because some kid is downloading Windows Vista from torrents.

As for more specifically the topic of piracy, here are some thoughts as to WHY it happens.

- Many softwares cost FAR MORE than they are worth. Dont forget, some people, and many of our members here come from less wealthy countries, where even owning a computer is something few can accomplish.
Lets take a guy who lives in a country where the average income is $150/month... He managed to save money and buy a computer. Now hes doing blackhat, and making maybe $400/mth. By the standards in his country, thats really good.

Do you REALLY expect him to piss away $500 (which is more than he makes a month) on a copy of Microsoft Office, if the dude on the street is selling it on a burned cd for $4?

- Many products are simply garbage or do not live up to expectations. Case in point, many of the "Make money" ebooks selling for $120, are nothing more than rehashed info you can easily find yourself.
If they were sold for $7, that would be fine. But as long as this crap continues, those ebooks will keep ending up in the dloads section of BHW.

- Companies claim they lose "billions of dollars" due to piracy. This is not true. Most people who pirate things either cant afford or are unwilling to pay for the product's real price. If the pirated product would not be available, they simply wouldnt use it at all.
Click to expand...


I'm sure we all appreciate your sincerity but you're not getting the point. First of all this has nothing to do with this forum but piracy on the whole, he wasn't judging this forum nor did he ask anybody to either. Information is not piracy so it cannot be a valid argument in this case, and I do agree this forum is more of information and I appreciate that. But we're talking about piracy. "BH" doesn't have a definition. Fraud is plain fraud and has nothing to do with neither piracy nor this forum. I've never seen one fraud thread taken seriously or not closed in-fact I've never seen one fraud thread here during my time so far. "The companies targeted", this is not a forum that holds grudges and its plain ignorant to "target someone", and we're not murderers. We all have the potential to make billions so beyond working for something rather targeting it because they're more successful than you is low, plain (and ignorant). Are you targeting us or piracy on the whole? Most of your points are generally valid but are at the same time irrelevant or out-of-context, (or offensive). Basically you have given two sides of the story on piracy, which one do you agree with? ;)
 
Last edited:
wildjokers said:
Okay...here's a debatable question but...

What do you guys think about piracy or better yet, how do you feel about it?

I'm asking because of a project I'm working on and would like to hear your views.
Click to expand...


Well i think i'm in favor of it considering we are a part of a place where information is free. However; that doesn't mean you should ever pirate off your fellow mates, if you are doing that then you are a traitor.

The question is pretty open ended, you could talk for hours verbally about the ethics of theft and the definition of it and how it is relative to the internet. Personally I will take things to get ahead(given it doesn't fuck over ppl i care about), i don't know if you can deal with that or not.
 
samloron said:
I?m sure we all appreciate your sincerity but you?re not getting the point. First of all this has nothing to do with this forum but piracy on the whole, he wasn?t judging this forum nor did he ask anybody to either. Information is not piracy so it cannot be a valid argument in this case, and I do agree this forum is more of information and I appreciate that. But we?re talking about piracy. ?BH? doesn?t have a definition. Fraud is plain fraud and has nothing to do with neither piracy nor this forum. I?ve never seen one fraud thread taken seriously or not closed in-fact I?ve never seen one fraud thread here during my time so far. ?The companies targeted?, this is not a forum that wholes grudges and its plain ignorant to ?target someone?, and we?re not murderers. We all have the potential to make billions so beyond working for something rather targeting it because they?re more successful than you is low, plain (and ignorant). Are you targeting us or piracy on the whole? Most of your points are generally valid but are at the same time irrelevant or out-of-context, (or offensive). Basically you have given two sides of the story on piracy, which one do you agree with? ;)
Click to expand...

The point of my post was not to "judge the forums". I really like this forum, and its the only IM related forum I post in on such a regular basis.
I was not saying that fraud is promoted here, in fact the only "Fraud" thread I saw was "Borat" asking "can I use the carding for buy ads?". He got slammed by members and the thread was deleted within minutes.

Neither did I intend to "target" this community in any negative way. This would be quite hypocrytical of me, as 90% of the methods I use and have used are considered Blackhat.

Now back to the main topic, piracy. I simply answered the OPs question about "views on piracy", & presented some info as to WHY I think piracy occurs.

As for "which side I am on" when it comes to the piracy issue, one thing I can say, is that I wouldnt mind paying for a program if its REASONABLY priced, and USEFUL. I have paid for many programs made by some smaller companies and developers.
 
If you don't think it's worth the price, buy something else. Otherwise you're still stealing.

"I think milk should be 1 dollar, not 4! I'M TAKING THIS MILK BECAUSE MILK SHOULD BE A DOLLAR!"

N
 
Well when i put on me eyepatch and stroll on to me ship with my faithful parrot on my shoulder and a wench on me one arm and some grog in me other, i feel fantastic. ;-)
 
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