PayPal chargeback case: I won, closed case, now re-opened?

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oatmeal

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So some guy off ebay bought my product back on June 1st. I shipped the product with tracking and it was successfully delivered.

Nearly 40 days later (July 9th) he opens a PayPal chargeback case claiming unauthorized charge of his credit card.
I provided paypal with evidence they asked of me.

July 22nd, Paypal closes the case in my favor and said in an email that I met the requirements of Seller Protection, money was given back to me, case was closed.

Aug 4th, the guy's card issuer files a counter-claim
Aug 4th, paypal reviews
Aug 4th, case closed again in my favor

Aug 6th, another counter-claim received by card issuer
Aug 6th, case under review (again)

....so, what the heck is happening here? Is this some case of a guy spamming and trying to chargeback even after the case was closed twice by paypal?

Paypal already told me it's done and the transaction met eligibility of Seller Protection, so can I assume that I'm safe still? Or can they completely go back on their word and take the money out again?

It seems this person or the card-issuer of this buyer is trying hard to dispute and dispute and I don't know what new information they are trying to provide each time to find a loophole?

This concerns me and sounds like the work of a scammer.

Should I be concerned or is this pretty much going to be rejected everytime they keep filing a counter claim?
 
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oatmeal said:
So some guy off ebay bought my product back on June 1st. I shipped the product with tracking and it was successfully delivered.

Nearly 40 days later (July 9th) he opens a PayPal chargeback case claiming unauthorized charge of his credit card.
I provided paypal with evidence they asked of me.

July 22nd, Paypal closes the case in my favor and said in an email that I met the requirements of Seller Protection, money was given back to me, case was closed.

Aug 4th, the guy's card issuer files a counter-claim
Aug 4th, paypal reviews
Aug 4th, case closed again in my favor

Aug 6th, another counter-claim received by card issuer
Aug 6th, case under review (again)

....so, what the heck is happening here? Is this some case of a guy spamming and trying to chargeback even after the case was closed twice by paypal?

Paypal already told me it's done and the transaction met eligibility of Seller Protection, so can I assume that I'm safe still? Or can they completely go back on their word and take the money out again?

It seems this person or the card-issuer of this buyer is trying hard to dispute and dispute and I don't know what new information they are trying to provide each time to find a loophole?

This concerns me and sounds like the work of a scammer.

Should I be concerned or is this pretty much going to be rejected everytime they keep filing a counter claim?
Click to expand...

Something similar happened to me. But from the other side.

I made a deal with guy that he will send me money and I will provide him service with that money and I will take 20$ as a tip. So, I provided service and took my 20$. 1 hour after this guy opened dispute and claimed it was unauthorized payment. I provided every piece of evidence that I provided the service (skype conversation where he claims he received the service, pictures of providing service and so on). Paypal said since I can't provide tracking number and other shits, they will refund him the money. So I have negative balance now.

Well, I have really everything, even his own claim he received the service but they still returned money. Really don't know what to do...
 
Vasary said:
Something similar happened to me. But from the other side.

I made a deal with guy that he will send me money and I will provide him service with that money and I will take 20$ as a tip. So, I provided service and took my 20$. 1 hour after this guy opened dispute and claimed it was unauthorized payment. I provided every piece of evidence that I provided the service (skype conversation where he claims he received the service, pictures of providing service and so on). Paypal said since I can't provide tracking number and other shits, they will refund him the money. So I have negative balance now.

Well, I have really everything, even his own claim he received the service but they still returned money. Really don't know what to do...
Click to expand...


As far as I know, the single most important evidence you need to win the case is provide tracking number and proof of delivery. Yeah, when it comes to under-the-table deal like that, it's hard to fight those cases since there's no physical transaction of goods but services. In my case, after I had provided tracking number and proof that the buyer successfully received the item, they pretty much told me I was protected under the seller protection program now and so the money they temporarily froze was released back to me and case was closed. I just don't know the other side is still filing a counter-claim even after Paypal closed the case twice. It's as if they are trying to find another method or way around to reverse the decision.
 
oatmeal said:
As far as I know, the single most important evidence you need to win the case is provide tracking number and proof of delivery. Yeah, when it comes to under-the-table deal like that, it's hard to fight those cases since there's no physical transaction of goods but services. In my case, after I had provided tracking number and proof that the buyer successfully received the item, they pretty much told me I was protected under the seller protection program now and so the money they temporarily froze was released back to me and case was closed. I just don't know the other side is still filing a counter-claim even after Paypal closed the case twice. It's as if they are trying to find another method or way around to reverse the decision.
Click to expand...

I know I don't have tracking number but I provided service. And I have proof that the guy CLAIMED he received the service. Anyway, how can I reopen dispute or do counter-claim?
 
Hmm...I'm not sure, I've never filed a claim or filed a counter-claim.
 
oatmeal said:
Hmm...I'm not sure, I've never filed a claim or filed a counter-claim.
Click to expand...

If someone loses a PayPal claim they can file a claim with the credit card that they funded PayPal with.
 
toml3030 said:
If someone loses a PayPal claim they can file a claim with the credit card that they funded PayPal with.
Click to expand...

It shows in my paypal that the card issuer filed a counter-claim to paypal on Aug 4 but it looks like it was closed by paypal.
Then on Aug.6, the card issuer filed another counter-claim, and it's again being reviewed. So not sure what that means, and not sure
if this is some kind of scam or loophole that has been used before?

Basically, I shipped the item with proof/evidence of tracking number and the successful delivery of it. But if the buyer is claiming that his cc was used without his authorization (maybe someone stole it? maybe someone used his card?), I don't get why it would ever be my fault. That's an issue he should take up with his own cc company and hopefully get covered for that. But my guess this is some sort of scamming scheme because it took the guy over 40 days to notice that someone used his credit card? And if it indeed wasn't him, why did he successfully accept the shipment as shown in the tracking? Very fishy to me.
 
If he paid through paypal using a debit / credit card he can still charge back using his credit card company after losing the dispute through paypal.

I had a dispute with someone and PayPal actually told me to do the charge back through my credit card after after they ruled in his favor.
 
It's probably a scam, but more likely you will win 100% if the item was sent to the billing address of the credit card. If not, you should be covered by the seller protection by paypal if you sent it to the paypal address of record. You are fucked if you sent it to some other address.
 
If you lose a dispute you can still do a charge back with your credit card company.

You wont win a charge back unless you have some concrete proof and even then you might still lose. It a lot easier for PayPal to just side with the credit card company and move on instead of going back and forth between you two.

Plus a credit card company will fight for their customer because that money the customer spent is the credit card company's money. If the customer used a debit card the card company wont stand up for them as much.
 
Your best bet might be to give Paypal a call and see what is going on. Last I knew, disputes could not be open again after the case has been closed.
 
Most probably you'll lose the claim this time since its filled by the credit card company this time!
 
But what I don't get is, paypal already told me I'm under the Seller protection program since I provided the evidence and information they asked. So what if a credit card company decides to file a counter-claim on the buyer's behalf? It's not me who scammed him of his money. It's his problem. Someone on his end either stole his card and used it, or he's trying to scam me by claiming he didn't authorize the charge even though he has the item now. If he wants to ship back the item to me, and get a refund, I don't see why that is a problem? But how can they decide to take money from me and let him keep the item at the same time all for the reason that someone used his cc authorized?

It doesn't make sense to me. This has nothing to do with me anymore. The buyer and his credit card company are the ones that should be working out some deal with each other.
 
ppal is bastards.
you need to win again, then case will be closed for ever.
 
Well so far Paypal has been closing the case for me. They already closed it twice in my favor. The card issuer filed another counter claim on Aug 6 and it's still under review. Weirdness. If someone stole his cc or someone used without his authorization, how is that my fault? If he has the item, he can ship it back to get a refund. But it seems like they are trying to get away with his chargeback and keep the item.
 
A couple of things. Did you send the item to his verified Paypal address? I mean is his Paypal verfied? And secondly some people don't get a card statement for about 50 days so that's not going to be something that can be argued.
 
You should be fine, you're under seller protection.
Even if you lose because of some bullshit, you can call paypal and they'll give you your money.
I once sold an xbox code and the buyer opened a dispute and lost and then claimed the same fucking bullshit.
Since I had just emailed the code and didn't physically send it, they ruled in his favor.
I called paypal and after like an hour of talking they gave me 50% back even while not being under seller protection.
 
islandman1010 said:
A couple of things. Did you send the item to his verified Paypal address? I mean is his Paypal verfied? And secondly some people don't get a card statement for about 50 days so that's not going to be something that can be argued.
Click to expand...

I checked my paypal transaction again from June 1. His address doesn't say the "verified" like some do. But I did ship it to the address in the transaction page (same as ebay).

I checked paypal's policy 11.3 Eligibility Requirements:

It says for both Chargebacks or Unauthorized Transactions, the requirements were that the item must be marked as "eligible" for PayPal Seller protection which it was. You must provide proof of shipment or proof of delivery, which I also did.

That's why PayPal told me I was under seller protection and closed the case the first time on July 22nd (when buyer had opened a claim). Then Aug 4 got counter-claim but this time instead of saying "buyer" it said "card issuer" which I assume means his cc company. Paypal said they count not dispute on behalf of seller (whatever that means?) and closed the case on Aug 4. Then card issuer filed another counter-claim on Aug 6. It's currently still under review.....that's where it stands. Paypal has not emailed me or messaged me back ....if they needed me to do something else, wouldn't they have emailed me or messaged me?

I'll let you know what happens in the next couple days or whenever it's done for future learning purposes.
 
I just checked the case now in Paypal and it's gone again. It looks like PayPal closed it again in my favor.
 
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