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Part 2: Paypal and Their $80 Debt Collector

Discussion in 'Business & Tax Advice' started by shamster25, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. shamster25

    shamster25 Regular Member

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    So I've decided to not even try to fight this bullshit that came onto me because of a chargeback - so I've decided to just pay this off and be done with Paypal forever.

    Now I've decided to just pay the $80 straight to Paypal and not pay through IC Systems because frankly they are annoying, harassing assholes - but I have a few questions.

    If i send a money in minutes Western Union Online how do I guarantee Paypal receives it? Does it send them a notification to their address that a money order was sent in their name or do I have to call them up and tell them I just sent an online money order? And what do I do about IC Systems? Do I just tell them I paid it off directly to Paypal and they will stop bothering me?
     
  2. valwardon

    valwardon BANNED BANNED

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    Paypal SOLD your debt to a debt collection agency. You no longer owe paypal.
     
  3. shamster25

    shamster25 Regular Member

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    so I HAVE to do this through IC Systems?
     
  4. oldenstylehats

    oldenstylehats Elite Member Premium Member

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    Debt collectors jobs are to be annoying, harassing assholes.
     
  5. Barbacamanitu

    Barbacamanitu Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I got a call from IC about 3 weeks ago, and they were looking for $30 for ebay fees from a long time ago. I told them take it from the $800 sitting in my frozen paypal account, and dont call me back.
     
  6. oldenstylehats

    oldenstylehats Elite Member Premium Member

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    Very, very good advice for both business and personal finances.
     
  7. Warbucks

    Warbucks Junior Member

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    As someone who has had credit problems and had to deal with blood sucking hell spawn collection agency phone monkeys, I'd say this:

    1) IC SYSTEMS is one of the most obnoxious you could deal with.

    2) Do nothing without it in writing. Tell them you need to see proof they own the debt and that you are the one responsible. Doesn't matter if you know its true, force them to prove it.

    3) If they try to pressure you for quick turnaround, counteroffer that they can go fuck themselves. You'll hear all sorts of carefully crafted half truths like "The Client wants this taken care of today to prevent going to court." THEY are the client. And they surely do want to take care of it today. But

    4) The likelihood of them suing you for $80 is somewhere around zero. Small claims filing and legal fees would run them many times that. They'll threaten, mark my words. They'll claim that their lawyer can have it in the courts today. But they'll never pull the trigger. Spending $500 to get $80 isn't worthwhile, even if they get a judgement against you that includes legal fees. I've been threatened by the best for much much more money and NEVER been sued.

    5) As said above, Collection Agencies are basically loan sharks that buy your debt. They probably paid paypal around $50-60 for your debt. Paypal no longer lists it on their books. You've got to deal with the collection.

    6) Never, ever, sign anything you send to a collection agency. Ever. There are many clearly documented cases of collection companies forging a debtor's signature on documents. I'm not saying that IC Systems does this, but it has happened before to other people. They don't need your signature, they need money. Even if your debt was $8000 they don't need your signature.

    If you are willing to pay $80 and want this to go away, do this.

    Call IC Systems and tell them that you are willing to pay them in full provided they are willing to work with you on the details. As I said above, I prefer forcing them to prove they own the debt, but if you know you own it, you can just pay it.

    Tell them you want the following. You want a letter from them, on company letterhead, detailing the debt, it's amount, and language saying that if you pay it in full, they agree to remove the record from your credit report, and that this constitutes 100% closure of the debt.

    Once you receive that, MAIL them a US Postal Money Order that you have photocopied for your records, a photocopy of the letter they sent you, and a cover letter restating your agreement.

    Removing it from your credit report is good for you and they shouldn't care.

    Making them specify that the debt is 100% paid prevents them from saying "We collected the debt, but there's these fees, we'll sell THAT to another collection agency." This is extremely common. You need something that says you are 100% paid in full.

    And to that I would make your payment contingent upon them agreeing to send you a PAID IN FULL letter after your payment is received.

    Again, do all of the above on paper, in the mail. NEVER give them a credit card or checking account number over the phone no matter how hard they push.

    The thing to remember here is that while they want you to think they have you over a barrel, they really have very little leverage. They want their investment back and will usually do just about anything to get you to pay. You offer them paid in full, they'll gladly let you have your documentation and removal from credit report, though they'll try to make it seem that they are being generous for doing so.

    That said, remember. I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a guy who has spent far too much time on the phone with these slimy cockbags. While I can't guarantee that you won't get sued, in the days of my youth I've personally let far far larger amounts just sit and refuse to pay them because a collections agent pissed me off. I never paid them, and never got sued.
     
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  8. valwardon

    valwardon BANNED BANNED

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    Wow that is a very very nice rule of thumb and guide for working with collection agencies.

    I often wandered though what is the legalities of companies selling others your debt. About 10 years ago I was hospitalized and could not afford to pay the bill . There is a law that states in my state that a hospital can not report a debt to your credit file.

    The hospital turned it over to a collection agency which then in turned turned it into the credit bureau. that to me makes no sense as they themselves might has well have turned it over to the credit bureau as it was a debt acquired during an emergency surgery. What makes the difference? It appears that they sold it to a collection agency just to get around the law.
     
  9. hawke

    hawke Power Member

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    Well I will say this.

    I got a letter the other day from some "Collection" agency, that wanted $2300 for a Suposed bill I owed, when I called them and asked them what it was for, they had NO IDEA! I told 'em to get stuffed and hung up ;)

    The Collection's company has to PROVE that the debt is yours.

    ANd to do that they would need the original Owner of the debt, and ALL Signed(E-Signed), documents pertaining to that debt. If they cannot not prove the debt belongs to you, then there's NO WAY a judge will allow it in court, and will most likely throw it out. The burden of proof falls on the Legal Loan sharks. That's why they won't take you to court, for $5000 let alone $80.

    It's the same as with these people that are being Fucked by their Mortgage company, when they sell your note to another company. The original note is usually "Lost". But the average joe doesn't know that, and when it goes to court, HomeOwner doesn't show up out of fear they can't do anything, and lose by default ....sad...sad....world we live in....remember these 3 words...

    "Produce The Note"

    Most likely they can't.
     
  10. crashed

    crashed Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Another thing to remember, is a lot of collection agencies will take a partial payment as full and final payment.

    Haggle with them, they can usually give around 20 -30% discount and mark the debt as paid in full :D
     
  11. ChanzGrande

    ChanzGrande Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    No way the collection agency paid anywhere near $60 for an $80 debt. My money is on $25-$30. Given how many people just NEVER pay their debts, very few collection companies could survive on such low margins.

    Anyway, isn't it obvious the world economy is going to totally collapse? Oh how valuable those notes will be when everyone's money is worth nothing. Better get some cattle, goats, and a garden people. :)
     
  12. Warbucks

    Warbucks Junior Member

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    I'd wager that they turned it over for pure money reasons. Doctors and Hospitals are not really set up for debt collection, and as in your state, it's often difficult to do for various reasons. Medical Privacy laws just complicate matters. Most hospitals run on pretty low margins as it is, so getting 80% of their money now is a better deal than 0% and paying someone to track you down.

    That said, if the original incident which incurred the debt is older than seven years, it can't be listed on your credit report. Doesn't matter when or how many times a collection agency has filed against you it should be the original debt which triggers the 7 year clock. (It's 10 years for Foreclosures, Tax Liens and court ordered judgements)

    There's a great site called creditboards.com with some real ninja type credit report people. They have a full set of tutorials and the forum for asking questions. If that collection agency is on your credit report, you should petition the credit bureaus to verify and remove.

    If the collection is no longer on your report, the agency has really zero leverage with you. They'll threaten to sue but likely won't.

    If they call and hassle you, you can whip out the big guns. Just tell them "I would like to invoke my rights under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and demand that you communicate with me solely by postal mail and never call me again."

    Yes, that's your legal right. :D
     
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  13. shamster25

    shamster25 Regular Member

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    So what if i just give them a Prepaid Credit Card Number with $80 on it over the phone? That would just solve it right. They can go ahead and try to charge whatever on it because it wont go over $80. I don't really want to go into sending letters and shit..
     
  14. Warbucks

    Warbucks Junior Member

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    If they'll take it, that's a fantastic idea. I use prepaid gift cards to fund my FullTiltPoker habit. What you want to prevent is giving them anything you absolutely don't have to.

    I would still require that you get something in writing.
     
  15. oldenstylehats

    oldenstylehats Elite Member Premium Member

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    Good stuff, Warbucks.

    Also, though it might be a hard sell on an $80 debt, you should definitely contact them and say, "Listen. I can afford to pay you $50. That is it. Will you accept it?" They might try and brow beat you, but if you persist, you might get the debt beaten down a bit.
     
  16. java

    java Guest

    Not necessarily. Paypal or any other creditor could still own the debt. There are two ways this works. If a creditor gets tired of working a debt, they could assign it to a collection agency. The agency will get a commission on any amount the collect. Whether you send the funds to the collection agency or to the creditor, the agency collections their commission. You might just as well send it to the agency to put an end to the collection effort sooner.

    The other way is when a creditor thinks a debt is noncollectable, they will sell the debt for pennies on the dollar. If you send the funds to the original creditor, they send the full amount to the agency that owns the debt. Again, the fastest way is just to send it to the agency directly.

    You gain nothing if you think you are "punishing" the agency by not paying them directly, instead you are just delaying the resolution of the problem.

    Some are, some aren't. Many do have an in house collection department.
     
  17. rondroid

    rondroid Newbie

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    Another tidbit of information.
    A few years ago I was trying to clean up my credit report
    and you can usually get a free one once a year from each bureau.
    Usually it is an online version but that is great because you can see it online and here's
    the trick.
    Anything on the report that you don't like, dispute it, and I mean
    all of it. Say it's not your debt, etc...
    They have to prove that it's yours and they only have a limited time to do so.

    When I did, all the bad crap suddenly went away and most of it was stuff
    I really owed for.

    Ron :)