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Page Rank Means Nothing When It Comes To SERPS?

Discussion in 'White Hat SEO' started by blackhatnoob, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. blackhatnoob

    blackhatnoob Junior Member

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    So Ive been reading all over this forum about people making money from autoblogs, regular static sites, etc. Everyone in their guide posts that you should get lots of backlinks, linkwheels, and hope to raise your pr. So I was wondering if its worth doing all that and if it really means that a higher page rank will get you on the first page in google. Here are two threads I found when searching on google:

    v7n.com/forums/seo-forum/61571-pagerank-serp.html
    v7n.com/forums/seo-forum/50436-why-people-talking-so-much-about-pagerank.html

    So is all this page rank a myth? And all you need is good seo to be on the front page? Does good seo mean having a lot of links?

    :pcguru::pcguru::pcguru::pcguru::pcguru:
     
  2. dangregory

    dangregory Registered Member

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    It depends on your competition. If you use seoquake for firefox (free addon - highly recommended) look in Google for your keywords. If you see lots of sites that are a LOT older than yours (two to three years) and/or if those sites have really high page rank (5 and up) then you're going to have troubles knocking them out of the first page results. Also check on the amount of backlinks that site has. That's what you're up against.

    Now, if you're targeting lower competition longtail keywords and your competition isn't so old, doesn't have high page rank, and doesn't have more than about 500 backlinks you can usually outperform them and get nice placements on the first page of google if you have a nicely optimized page.

    So page rank does matter in the scheme of things - it's one factor out of many in how Gogole favors pages.

    Dan
     
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  3. blackhatnoob

    blackhatnoob Junior Member

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    Ok thats really helpful info. I guess it would help if I provided a specific example:

    Lets say my goal is to get to the front page for the phrase "virus protection". A quick search shows there are 15 million websites matching. All of the ranks are above page rank of 4 except

    download.cnet.com/AVG-Anti-Virus-Free-Edition/3000-2239_4-10320142.html

    which has a page rank of 0

    Obviously cnet is one that would be on the front page. However if I can get 50-100 PR 3-4+ backlinks from good quality sites could I have any chance at all? All of the pages on the front are reputable companies like avg and symantec. I want to try this and I would work on getting 5-10 backlinks a day. But is it worth it to get all the backlinks? Basically Im willing to work hard to get backlinks but will it mean I can ever get on the front page?
     
  4. bocahtua

    bocahtua Junior Member

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    Like dangregory explain above and only add a few thing. PR will take great affect to SERP from PR 7 above. Thats my opinion.
     
  5. koshiro

    koshiro Junior Member

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    This is a question that no one really has an answer for... only Google since their algorithm is a secret. It is definitely possible with enough backlinks from high quality websites. But how long and how much?

    That you can only know if you try going after the term. See how fast you progress and how much work you've done and time/resources you've spent to get that rank. Then gauge if you want to push ahead and continue.

    Generally a good amount of longtail terms can get equal and more traffic than a competitive main keyword so I would personally go after the longtails instead since theres more ROI.
     
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  6. Gozpy

    Gozpy Regular Member

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    The PageRank itself has no influence. It is a calculation of the value of the backlinks. It is the backlinks that have an effect on your ranking (so ofc yes, one could say the pagerank is a factor, but it is still all about the backlinks). In other words, no, PageRank isn't a myth. - Neither is offpage seo.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 31, 2009
  7. blackhatnoob

    blackhatnoob Junior Member

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    Thanks everyone for the information. I just have one follow up question. I know page rank focuses on the quality of backlinks vs the quantity. But how about serps is it more backlinks that will get you on the front or higher pr backlinks?
     
  8. holla22

    holla22 Newbie

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    Guys, the more PR you have the deeper the spider crawls.

    So when you have a higher PR you will get more pages indexed and stand a better change for all pages to go up in the SERPS.

    Also another thing about High PR is that you will get indexed much faster for new content that you post.

    That is basically what PR is for.

    I'm a permanent SEO for a online casino company and we are doing very well.

    Another tip for you guys is, never link out on your main site. If you want to do link exchanges use other sites like your squidoo and hub pages to exchange with a 3 way link. Just make sure it's in the same niche. So when you do a link exchange tell the guy you will put his link on your popular squidoo page in exchange for a link to your site.

    When we got rid of all the links pointing out on our main sites the SERPS jumped by 25 positions in one day. :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  9. ageofz

    ageofz Registered Member Premium Member

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    Why not just "nofollow" them?
     
  10. squelsh

    squelsh Regular Member

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    Hi Blackhat Noob,

    My strategy for a new niche is always to start off with my long tail phrases and gain rankings for this. I dont have the time and patience to build links for months and months only to see no results for phrases, so I always start with loads of longtail ones. This ensures that the site starts making money and also starts gaining some authority.

    Eventually of course I want to dominate the high traffic phrase.

    Over the next few monhs I then build links for my long tail phrases and grow these as much as possible while at the same time building links to my homepage (or wherever your high traffic phrase is going) and developing my internal linking strucure to boost this as well. Generally though I dont really worry if I dont see much ranking for the high traffic phrase within the first few months.

    (If you are really sincere you could use adwords for your main phrase while its not ranking to get traffic and work out your converting phrases)

    By the time I start ranking for the high traffic phrase my long tails are mature and well linked to, I have loads of opimised internal links and quite a few external ones pointing to the main page. My site is also making money as well.

    From there it is simply a case of developing your ranking for that special phrase, but you can take it easy as you already have a working site.

    Hope this helps!!
     
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  11. breakfree

    breakfree Registered Member

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    You should look at PR this way:

    A reward from Google to good sites/pages, not as a way to get Google's appreciation.

    It's like a badge of merit.

    PR has some practical aspects too though, such as "spiderability", as mentioned, and a way of earning more from link sales.

    For pure SEO it's not very important.
     
  12. sikandar

    sikandar Senior Member

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    It is not difficult to get a high pagerank if you get links from a high PR site. I know some new automobile sites having PR6 - just because they bought text ads from some newspapers in Africa whose PR is 7. Now these automobile sites do not rank in the top 10 pages for Google for competitive auto related keywords. so I guess the corelation between PR and Ranking is not all that simple.
     
  13. woodstuck

    woodstuck Junior Member

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    Once again, PR has little to nothing to do with your serps (search engine ranking positions).

    You want highly qualified customers? Then you want to rank on the first page in the engines for 100's of related phrases.

    You want recognition for your topic, but not necessarily traffic or sales? Then work on your PR.

    They are not hand in hand. However, you can improve your serps and then I have seen PR improve...

    (takes a hit and hopes a sober reader can understand him...)

    Me?, I need customers, not PR rating. I want the first page - ideally, the first position.
    (exhales slowly)
     
  14. krishananda

    krishananda Elite Member

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    PR alone doesn't help in SERP, to get PR you need to do link building right?

    IMHO they're all like a unity, you can't discuss one without relating it to the others.
    When you build more links it will result in higher PR (in google's perspective),
    higher PR and more links meaning that your page will get visited more often by search engines bots.

    The more frequent bots coming in the better your SERP.
    So why people love to put links on high PR sites, because they get crawled more often, chances are if you put your links there, SE would very soon realize the existence of your backlinks and crawl back to your site plus sharing the link juice.

    So again IMHO it's better talk about elements in SEO as a whole, not as a single entity, they're all related.

    Page Rank Means Nothing When It Comes To SERPS? Did you do your link building campaign right? you may not ranked well in some keywords but outstanding in others.
     
  15. woodstuck

    woodstuck Junior Member

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    No offense, but this is simply NOT true.
     
  16. krishananda

    krishananda Elite Member

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    non taken, maybe it is maybe it's not
    but if it's not please explain how I can help my sites get ranked in first page without nothing but just building links to it - no updates on the sites.

    if it's not true, some evidences should be great.
     
  17. holla22

    holla22 Newbie

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    Well I'm certainly not doing a link exchange if you are going to nofollow my link :rolleyes:
     
  18. Sweetfunny

    Sweetfunny Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    There's a lot more to it than just Pagerank, deep links and a flat site architecture play a bigger part. If you take a 100k page site, and scatter 1k links to separate internal pages it will index better than consolidating those 1k links at the homepage just to get a higher PR.

    With this one no, Google relies more on historical data to set crawl rate priorities. I've got a PR7 single page plain HTML site that rarely ever gets updated, if i make a change on that it takes about 3 days for the content to show in Google. On the other hand, a PR4 blog i have is in Google 30 minutes after i post if i use ping and about 4 hours if i don't because it gets updated so often.

    Don't get me wrong, Pagerank helps with the above but it's only a small part of a much bigger picture. The trouble with (Toolbar) Pagerank is Google has turned the dials so much it's horribly inaccurate, now if we could get the internal Pagerank values "that" would be a worthwhile metric.
     
  19. blackhatedition

    blackhatedition Newbie

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    The most important thing you need is Keyword Authority, which you receive from obtaining backlinks with relevant anchor text from relevant web pages on relevant web sites who themselves have high Keyword Authority for the term. That's the magic behind it all.

    A high PR can mean a lot if all of the backlinks pointing to the site are from relevant sites with relevant anchor text. A high PR won't help you much at all if the anchor text and sites you're receiving links from are irrelevant to the term you're targeting.

    So, think of PR as a possible measure of Keyword Authority. The best way to check whether the PR is an accurate measure of Keyword Authority is to use a backlink checker tool, such as SEOQuake (as was described earlier) to check the anchor text.
     
  20. foreclosureking

    foreclosureking Regular Member

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    Right guys....PR has NOTHING to do with ranking. I have several sites with 0 PR and they're on the first page of Google. I have created new sites and within 60 days they are on the 1st page right along with PR 5 sites. There are several factors that come into play when trying to rank.

    1. Backlinks
    2. Keywords
    3. Content
    4. <h1> tags
    5. Sometimes number of pages will matter
    6. Type of site (php,html)
    7. internal page link structure, etc
    8. Geo-targted or not. (national, regional or local.)

    There is no silver bullet but the more of these things you understand and address, the better your site will rank.