ORM for People Without a Business

Nullium · Aug 2, 2016

I've been lurking around the forums for a while and recently got an account. I've implemented 7878's method and had a lot of success with it (thinking of starting a Journey thread, showing everything from start to current in lots of detail).

I have been thinking of expanding and redesigning the business to focus on an external sales team instead of doing it all myself.

My business is very straight-forward:

After obtaining my leads (twists from 7878), I have a payment portal that puts clients on recurring billing. I then have a web funnel that collects and emails the client when there is a bad rating, and push happy customers through to the review pages I'm targeting. I provide clients with feedback cards to give customers with their funnel URL. I also give them a quarterly report of what's changed.

Idea:

I want to set it up where people could sign up on my site and receive resources (like sales resources, how to find clients, etc.). All they would have to do is sign a client up through the payment portal. I would then be notified and create the business's funnel, cards, quarterly reports, etc. The only thing they'd have to do is take the cards I designed that are shipped to them and take it to the business to set it up and show them how it works again. I would then pay them 50% each month (I charge $497.00 monthly).

So basically, I would pay people around $250.00 / month / client for basically getting their local clients, relaying any information the client needs to me, and making sure their client has their feedback cards. I would handle the funnel creation, email relay for negative comments, reporting (emailed to the sales person to show the client), legal stuff, taxes, etc.

I think many people would be interested since it is a lot of work to set up a business. They wouldn't have to do much but they'd get a lot of money. I don't want to charge people like Feedback Magnet, I want to reward them for getting clients!

Message me if you want to see what my review funnel looks like (I've uploaded it to a free host as I'd like to keep my domain hidden).

Thoughts?

BHopkins · Aug 3, 2016

What you're talking about is generally called "white label" where the guy referring you leads is reselling your business to his client.

If you're paying $250 recurring I could see people being interested if the retention rate is high. I think more people would be interested if they brought in the business and you handled everything, I know I wouldn't want to drive over and hand them postcards that could be shipped directly to them instead.

At this point though, if you're successful (profitable and growing), why take on affiliates? It's going to be a hassle to manage, make payments and deal with accounting issues. I would just continue to scale your marketing and outreach as it sounds like you have a solid system.

Nullium · Aug 3, 2016

BHopkins said:
What you're talking about is generally called "white label" where the guy referring you leads is reselling your business to his client. If you're paying $250 recurring I could see people being interested if the retention rate is high. I think more people would be interested if they brought in the business and you handled everything, I know I wouldn't want to drive over and hand them postcards that could be shipped directly to them instead.

At this point though, if you're successful (profitable and growing), why take on affiliates? It's going to be a hassle to manage, make payments and deal with accounting issues. I would just continue to scale your marketing and outreach as it sounds like you have a solid system.

Thanks for responding BHopkins. At this point, I was probing to see if there was any interest.

I knew someone was going to bring up shipping directly to the business owner, haha! The main reason is the fact that I order 10,000 cards initially, and 'order' new cards when the business runs out. Anyway, I may make this a per client decision for the salesperson as well as possibly letting them choose what they'd like to charge their clients.

Although this business has taken off much better than I had hoped for, I'd like to use my programming skills to make it more automated. Currently it's mostly automated, but since I charge so much I like to keep a personal touch on some aspects.

The hardest part (for me at least) is turning my leads into sales. I still struggle with the sales meeting at their business. I know several people that can sell anything to anyone, and it'd be a win-win for both of us. I have a thorough plan for payment setup, accounting, tax information (1099), etc. I think I can set it up where it will be hassle-free for both ends of the partnership.

I just think it'd be cool to have people sign up and get their sales resources (explainer videos, example web funnels to show clients, etc.) and their unique client payment portal created.

All they'd really have to do is get a client through the payment portal and that's it! I will instantly know and handle their interactions, reports, bookkeeping, payments, feedback card design, web funnel design, etc. They just sit back and get 50% of what they charge their client. I think that'd be inciting for some (although it's quiet on this thread).

By the way BHopkins, your business website looks great. I hope you're doing well out in CA!

BHopkins · Aug 3, 2016

I got it! For $500/month I wouldn't plan to meet with clients. Assuming you close 10% of your sales and keep clients an average of 3 months. If you were able to schedule and keep 1 meeting per day you would meet with 20 clients per month. The most you could hope to make is $3000 gross per month. Obviously those numbers are just guesses but I would consider NEVER meeting with a client for $500 per month but have it all automated with email and phone support if they need it.

Here is my math, I'm sure you'll be different in a variety of ways.

Screen Shot 2016-08-03 at 12.48.23 PM.png

Nullium · Aug 4, 2016

In the area I live, it's hard to pry cash from the small business owners I target (even if it's good for them). I've tried to build the business around keeping clients as long as possible by focusing on how the funnel page will keep negative reviews at bay (as long as their customers are able to reach the funnel via cards or email lists). So far almost all of my clients are still with me (some have been with me for over a year), so I'm happy so far. Your math looks very similar to how I have an Excel sheet!

For my business, I focus mainly on the reviews for businesses, not really focusing on SEO or anything. During my sales meeting, I show them via Google's Keyword Tool how many people are searching for them locally, and how many sales they probably missed out on.

Besides the 7878 thread, I haven't looked at other's threads for pricing and just went with what I thought would work and what I needed.

I see a bunch of people looking at this thread! Comment so I can gauge if I should do this or not! Could be good for newbies... I know I would have used my service when I was poor, haha.

Lunaaa · Aug 4, 2016

I would maybe be interested in the future

BHopkins · Aug 4, 2016

Nullium said:
So far almost all of my clients are still with me (some have been with me for over a year)

That's great! The math definitely moves more into your favor the longer they stick around!

Nullium · Aug 5, 2016

Makistoj, are there

BHopkins said:
That's great! The math definitely moves more into your favor the longer they stick around!

Definitely! It seems like you've been at it a while also. It would be nice if this type of business had longer-lasting clients though. I may be leaving a longer message soon.

beefstew · Aug 5, 2016

I would be interested in something like this if instead of a 50% split, you took the $250.00/month regardless of the monthly price I could sell the client on. I've been trying to figure out a review funneling system to implement 7878's method myself.

You would handle all of the customer interaction after everything is set up initially? So, they'd contact you directly if they have a problem with the system or want to change something?

Nullium · Aug 5, 2016

beefstew said:
I would be interested in something like this if instead of a 50% split, you took the $250.00/month regardless of the monthly price I could sell the client on. I've been trying to figure out a review funneling system to implement 7878's method myself. You would handle all of the customer interaction after everything is set up initially? So, they'd contact you directly if they have a problem with the system or want to change something?

Correct. Some stuff has changed from the beginning of this thread to make it as hands-free for you as possible.

For example, as long as you can get a client to move through your payment page on the site (basically just signing them up), you wouldn't touch a thing or have to talk to them after that (assuming I ship the feedback cards to the client directly). I would handle everything beyond the sale while you get paid as long as the client is paying.

I would also provide each salesperson (for lack of a better name) with a link to a sales resources page on the site so they can have everything they need: videos, funnel examples, statistics, testimonials, etc.

Interesting point about the $250.00... I would consider setting it up that way for more all of you savvy salespeople out there. I honestly wouldn't mind if I received $250.00 monthly even if you were able to score them at $5000.00 monthly. I might set it up where $250 is the base price I take out, and whatever you want to charge (and receive) is up to you. It seems some of you are able to charge a lot more than I can here in OK!

Another note is that I designed this to keep clients as long as possible instead of in the style of an x-month reputation fix. I crafted it to where instead of patching their leaking boat, I provide a really nice bucket that they need to keep using.

Gt86 · Aug 5, 2016

This is great stuff here Nullium! Reading this makes me even more confident about starting ORM. I am very serious about starting up and I have read through about 79 pages of 7878's Thread for ORM. I have everything down except for the funneling website and a page that accepts payments. If you or someone would be kind enough to give a new and eager person a push that would be great!

Thanks in advance!
Gt86

Nullium · Aug 6, 2016

Gt86 said:
This is great stuff here Nullium! Reading this makes me even more confident about starting ORM. I am very serious about starting up and I have read through about 79 pages of 7878's Thread for ORM. I have everything down except for the funneling website and a page that accepts payments. If you or someone would be kind enough to give a new and eager person a push that would be great! Thanks in advance!
Gt86

Hey Gt86!

I started the exact same way you did but at the beginning of 2015. I read every line of 7878's method too... Lots of good stuff in there. I really have been thinking of doing a really detailed journey for anyone wanting to jump into ORM as fast as possible with everything they need. I noticed a lot of journeys aren't very detailed for obvious reasons. That thread is what made me dedicate a lot of time to ORM and get over my biggest problem of getting sales.

======

I took a lot of time designing the funnel based on ideas from BHW and from the grade.us website. Here's a link to my first old funnel. Here are some attributes of my funnel that differ from some I've seen:

High Ratings

You'll notice the funnel doesn't ask for any information from the reviewer at first. The reason is you want to get the happy customers off the funnel and to targeted review sites as fast as possible. You don't want them writing the reviews on your funnel and then having to rewrite it on the review site. If someone rates the business high, the page chooses a random review site from a list I make and takes them there so there's less work the reviewer has to do.

Low Ratings

If they rate the business low, then the funnel asks for more info and automatically sends an email to the client about it. This lets the reviewer vent and assures them the message was sent to management. This helps prevent them from leaving more reviews elsewhere as they know the business might take care of it and reach out to them.

Referer URL

Another important thing is a lot of review sites track the referer URL to see where people are coming from. I make my outbound links 'no-referer' so it doesn't look like people are coming from one location (the funnel). I don't want the reviews to get flagged.

======

If you know HTML, CSS, Javascript and some PHP for automatic emailing, you should be good to go. I know a lot of it seems like black magic to some people, but I just looked up specific coding questions, starting with HTML/CSS, then adding some Javascript. Lastly PHP (very little as it was just for emailing). It does take quite a bit of time to learn. If you want a fully-functional ORM site out of the box, I might sell one to you for a few hundred.

Payment Portal

The payment portal took the longest to figure out, but ended up being really easy. I knew I wanted to use Stripe. I didn't know how to easily get recurring payments on my site though. I ended up signing up on Chargebee. They are free to use as long as you don't make over $50,000, otherwise you have to start paying. Anyway, you design what you want your checkout portal and emails to look like, and it gives you your payment URL. If anyone visits your URL and puts their card info in, they will be charged monthly until you delete them. The chargebee account is tied to your Stripe account, so you see it go through to them automatically. You can customize everything. What I did was put this URL in what's called in iFrame, so it looks like the portal is fully on my website like this: payment.mysite.com. It's so nice.

======

If you have any other questions let me know! I could go on and on and on about tons of this stuff. I don't think you can PM yet, but just ask away on here!

Lunaaa · Aug 6, 2016

Nullium said:
Hey Gt86!

I started the exact same way you did but at the beginning of 2015. I read every line of 7878's method too... Lots of good stuff in there. I really have been thinking of doing a really detailed journey for anyone wanting to jump into ORM as fast as possible with everything they need. I noticed a lot of journeys aren't very detailed for obvious reasons. That thread is what made me dedicate a lot of time to ORM and get over my biggest problem of getting sales.

======

I took a lot of time designing the funnel based on ideas from BHW and from the grade.us website. Here's a link to my first old funnel. Here are some attributes of my funnel that differ from some I've seen:

High Ratings

You'll notice the funnel doesn't ask for any information from the reviewer at first. The reason is you want to get the happy customers off the funnel and to targeted review sites as fast as possible. You don't want them writing the reviews on your funnel and then having to rewrite it on the review site. If someone rates the business high, the page chooses a random review site from a list I make and takes them there so there's less work the reviewer has to do.

Low Ratings

If they rate the business low, then the funnel asks for more info and automatically sends an email to the client about it. This lets the reviewer vent and assures them the message was sent to management. This helps prevent them from leaving more reviews elsewhere as they know the business might take care of it and reach out to them.

Referer URL

Another important thing is a lot of review sites track the referer URL to see where people are coming from. I make my outbound links 'no-referer' so it doesn't look like people are coming from one location (the funnel). I don't want the reviews to get flagged.

======

If you know HTML, CSS, Javascript and some PHP for automatic emailing, you should be good to go. I know a lot of it seems like black magic to some people, but I just looked up specific coding questions, starting with HTML/CSS, then adding some Javascript. Lastly PHP (very little as it was just for emailing). It does take quite a bit of time to learn. If you want a fully-functional ORM site out of the box, I might sell one to you for a few hundred.

Payment Portal

The payment portal took the longest to figure out, but ended up being really easy. I knew I wanted to use Stripe. I didn't know how to easily get recurring payments on my site though. I ended up signing up on Chargebee. They are free to use as long as you don't make over $50,000, otherwise you have to start paying. Anyway, you design what you want your checkout portal and emails to look like, and it gives you your payment URL. If anyone visits your URL and puts their card info in, they will be charged monthly until you delete them. The chargebee account is tied to your Stripe account, so you see it go through to them automatically. You can customize everything. What I did was put this URL in what's called in iFrame, so it looks like the portal is fully on my website like this: payment.mysite.com. It's so nice.

======

If you have any other questions let me know! I could go on and on and on about tons of this stuff. I don't think you can PM yet, but just ask away on here!

It's only yelp? Why not google places

Nullium · Aug 6, 2016

makistoj said:
It's only yelp? Why not google places

It has Google Places as well. If you refresh the page and give it a good rating each time, you'll see it chooses a random link from a list, not just Yelp. This prevents a surge of reviews to one site, and spreads them out. I think for my example funnel I had it go to Yelp, Google, and Zomato. The newer one I use is able to do as many places as you need with 'weight' if you want the selector to be more likely to choose a link for them.

Gt86 · Aug 6, 2016

Nullium said:
Hey Gt86!

I started the exact same way you did but at the beginning of 2015. I read every line of 7878's method too... Lots of good stuff in there. I really have been thinking of doing a really detailed journey for anyone wanting to jump into ORM as fast as possible with everything they need. I noticed a lot of journeys aren't very detailed for obvious reasons. That thread is what made me dedicate a lot of time to ORM and get over my biggest problem of getting sales.

======

I took a lot of time designing the funnel based on ideas from BHW and from the http://www.grade.us/ website. Here's a link to http://ormexample.x10host.com/. Here are some attributes of my funnel that differ from some I've seen:

High Ratings

You'll notice the funnel doesn't ask for any information from the reviewer at first. The reason is you want to get the happy customers off the funnel and to targeted review sites as fast as possible. You don't want them writing the reviews on your funnel and then having to rewrite it on the review site. If someone rates the business high, the page chooses a random review site from a list I make and takes them there so there's less work the reviewer has to do.

Low Ratings

If they rate the business low, then the funnel asks for more info and automatically sends an email to the client about it. This lets the reviewer vent and assures them the message was sent to management. This helps prevent them from leaving more reviews elsewhere as they know the business might take care of it and reach out to them.

Referer URL

Another important thing is a lot of review sites track the referer URL to see where people are coming from. I make my outbound links 'no-referer' so it doesn't look like people are coming from one location (the funnel). I don't want the reviews to get flagged.

======

If you know HTML, CSS, Javascript and some PHP for automatic emailing, you should be good to go. I know a lot of it seems like black magic to some people, but I just looked up specific coding questions, starting with HTML/CSS, then adding some Javascript. Lastly PHP (very little as it was just for emailing). It does take quite a bit of time to learn. If you want a fully-functional ORM site out of the box, I might sell one to you for a few hundred.

Payment Portal

The payment portal took the longest to figure out, but ended up being really easy. I knew I wanted to use http://www.stripe.com. I didn't know how to easily get recurring payments on my site though. I ended up signing up on http://chargebee.com. They are free to use as long as you don't make over $50,000, otherwise you have to start paying. Anyway, you design what you want your checkout portal and emails to look like, and it gives you your payment URL. If anyone visits your URL and puts their card info in, they will be charged monthly until you delete them. The chargebee account is tied to your Stripe account, so you see it go through to them automatically. You can customize everything. What I did was put this URL in what's called in iFrame, so it looks like the portal is fully on my website like this: payment.mysite.com. It's so nice.

======

If you have any other questions let me know! I could go on and on and on about tons of this stuff. I don't think you can PM yet, but just ask away on here!

Nullium that helps me out so much more! I would really like to learn a lot more from you. I want to learn how to make my own site so far because I want to have that skill for the future if I continue down this route or if I take a different route. If I do need a starter I may purches from you but that may be a last resort.

Nullium · Aug 6, 2016

Gt86 said:
Nullium that helps me out so much more! I would really like to learn a lot more from you. I want to learn how to make my own site so far because I want to have that skill for the future if I continue down this route or if I take a different route. If I do need a starter I may purches from you but that may be a last resort.

No problem! If you post enough on the forum, I will be able to PM you and give you a LOT more assistance setting up your own system. There are a lot more details other than the funnel that I'm sure you've thought about. The coding part is the bottleneck to the process, but once you have that out of the way it all goes smoother.

Of course, if you want you can split the profit 50/50 and I'll do all the work for you...

That's what we're discussing at the moment.

I know the feeling of wanting to be independent though!

Gt86 · Aug 6, 2016

Nullium said:
No problem! If you post enough on the forum, I will be able to PM you and give you a LOT more assistance setting up your own system. There are a lot more details other than the funnel that I'm sure you've thought about. The coding part is the bottleneck to the process, but once you have that out of the way it all goes smoother.

Of course, if you want you can split the profit 50/50 and I'll do all the work for you... That's what we're discussing at the moment. I know the feeling of wanting to be independent though!

I will get that started because any help right now would be really appreciated! I will keep that in mind as well.

beefstew · Aug 6, 2016

Nullium said:
Correct. Some stuff has changed from the beginning of this thread to make it as hands-free for you as possible.

For example, as long as you can get a client to move through your payment page on the site (basically just signing them up), you wouldn't touch a thing or have to talk to them after that (assuming I ship the feedback cards to the client directly). I would handle everything beyond the sale while you get paid as long as the client is paying.

I would also provide each salesperson (for lack of a better name) with a link to a sales resources page on the site so they can have everything they need: videos, funnel examples, statistics, testimonials, etc.

Interesting point about the $250.00... I would consider setting it up that way for more all of you savvy salespeople out there. I honestly wouldn't mind if I received $250.00 monthly even if you were able to score them at $5000.00 monthly. I might set it up where $250 is the base price I take out, and whatever you want to charge (and receive) is up to you. It seems some of you are able to charge a lot more than I can here in OK!

Another note is that I designed this to keep clients as long as possible instead of in the style of an x-month reputation fix. I crafted it to where instead of patching their leaking boat, I provide a really nice bucket that they need to keep using.

Where do I sign up?

I can't send any private messages. My Skype name is beefstewandcornbread

MayhoonDon · Aug 7, 2016

hi could you please tell me exactly how to find local businesses with bad reviews...

Nullium · Aug 7, 2016

Someone sent a negative review through my example old filter, haha. I got a bcc email for that.

Gt86 said:
I will get that started because any help right now would be really appreciated! I will keep that in mind as well.

Awesome! Definitely try to learn HTML and CSS if you have time. I took the course at https://www.codecademy.com/learn/web. It takes a while and is super boring, but it explains how to build a basic website. HTML is the 'substance' of your website (images, text, etc.), CSS tells each of those things how to look and be spaced (really powerful), and Javascript gives you some power to change links, do checks, etc. At first it will be really foreign, but it gets way better and you'll feel like you can make most things.

beefstew said:
Where do I sign up? I can't send any private messages. My Skype name is beefstewandcornbread

I haven't set it up for others just yet, but I'll definitely let you know when it's ready! I am going to allow the option for people signing up to choose what they charge for the service with me taking a set amount instead of a percentage based on your comments earlier. Hahaha, your username and Skype name are great. I don't have Skype, but when I get this think launched for others to use, I'll download it and hit you up! It looks like I have a few people interested so I'll be working on building the site for others to use soon!

MayhoonDon said:
hi could you please tell me exactly how to find local businesses with bad reviews...

There are two ways. You can think of the type of business you want to target (apartments, restaurants, hotels, etc.) and look up cityname hotels, cityname restaurant, etc. This will bring up some businesses with their Google reviews. You can scroll through and look for the ones with low ratings. If you find one you like, retype the name of that business in Google and see if it has bad reviews in the SERPs. Add it to your list and repeat!

The second way is to use a bot like Makistoj and I do, which is much faster and lets you really get what you want quickly.

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