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Okay... So How Does This Happen?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Dan Da Man, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    Here's something funny.... A guy buys a $2,000 product from a site I own. Credit card info matches up with his shipping info and we expedite the product because he is leaving the country in a few days. Very nice of us.

    Also note this product is a cleaning product and is being shipped to a cleaning company (like some carpet cleaning company). So he must be using his business bank card to buy a product for his business.. Seems Legit right?

    He then gets the product and signs off for it at the address which matches up to his credit info.

    We called whoever did the chargeback and it was the exact same guy who had bought the product (since we talked to him because he wanted it expedited).

    After he receives the product he files a chargeback which basically says he didn't authorize the transaction. It then goes into dispute where I dispute the chargeback because I'm out 2 grand and the product.

    After 2 months, they decide the buyer wins and give him all his money back. I am told to contact the buyer and ask him for the product back hahaha!

    The guy doesn't pick up when i call and he left to brazil and he basically got a free $2,000 product. How does this happen?

    So if anyone wants free products online, basically buy whatever the fuck you want, contact your credit card company and say you didn't authorize that payment (even if it's shipped to your house and signed by you), and you can receive all the free products you want.
     
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  2. Panther28

    Panther28 Elite Member

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    Sounds good, we should all agree to do that to 1 different company every week. This way maybe someone will take notice of this huge flaw.
     
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  3. twitter.followers

    twitter.followers Elite Member

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    Really sad to hear that. Which payment gateway did you used to process the payment though?
     
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  4. shaggy93

    shaggy93 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    You're not alone . They are many dicks who did that thing with me.

    Your buyer filed a chargeback with their credit card company asking to
    reverse the above payment. Although your buyer reversed this payment, we
    want to work with the buyer's credit card company to get your money back.
    We are using the information you sent us to dispute the reversal.

    Just got this shit today :(
     
  5. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    Haha. It just doesn't make any sense. I use paypal Pro which is retarded but I really don't think it matters much because the buyer's credit card company has last say. They don't care if the company is out money.

    I just don't get how that can work. It is basically like going into Walmart, buying $2,000 worth of merch and then saying I don't want to pay for it.

    I hope people that do this kind of stuff to others die a slow painful death.

    The worse part about this fucker is we expedited the shipment so he could get it before he left to Brazil. We paid an extra $200 out of our own pocket to help this guy steal from us.

    His credit card company is just as fraud as the guy himself.
     
  6. ice41

    ice41 Power Member

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    That sucks man, hope you'll recover from that loss.
     
  7. Narrator

    Narrator Power Member

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    Happens to me all the time, but my products are in the $50-$150 range. I get about 2-3 charge backs a month and dispute them all. I usually win since I have the tracking and only ship out if the AVS matches. But occasionally their card company will side with them.

    It's funny how credit card companies act like they are the hero, if someone steals your card and they give you the money back. When its the merchants that pay for it.


    Cheers!
     
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  8. JimmyWong

    JimmyWong Registered Member

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    The Brazil story is probably BS.

    Take his company to court. Or threaten to by means of hiring a lawyer to send a letter, and gauge their reaction.
     
  9. SavyCon

    SavyCon Regular Member

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    Let that be a(n expensive) lesson. Don't use paypal. There are countless horror stories about locking up funds, and they always side with the buyer - no matter what.
     
  10. wowhaxor

    wowhaxor Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Was this through PayPal or through a direct credit card with your merchant/processing? If it was through PP then ALWAYS get delivery tracking/confirmation, if you show it went to his PP address you automatically win (unless he's not a verified user in which case I wouldn't do large orders). If it was his credit card you should still be able to provide them documents although its probably too late now and I'm guessing this happened because you didn't dispute it properly. CC companies offer buyer protection but they DON'T like fraud as they can't always recoup the money and have to eat it a lot, shipping and requiring signature at a confirmed address shows fraud. For $2,000 you need to be on top of things, and yes you can get a lawyer and probably even just the start of the process will scare him into paying as you'll win in court and get attorney's fees and court costs on top of it.
     
  11. Thub15

    Thub15 Regular Member

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    Thats bullshit, I said thanks above to thank you for bringing to light a bullshit tactic we have to watch out for.
     
  12. Narrator

    Narrator Power Member

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    It has nothing to do with paypal. With chargebacks the decision comes down to the customer's credit card company. Paypal actually disputes for you, once you prove shipment.
     
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  13. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    Exactly! I sent all proof. Proof of shipping, proof of credit info, proof of signature. Paypal doesn't give a shit. They say they are disputing for you but provide no reason to why the credit card company sided with the buyer.

    The buyer obviously has the product since shipping info and billing info was exact same. How can this even be disputed? The buyer obviously has the product.

    This isn't the first time it has happened, just the first time on such an expensive product. There is really nothing you can do.

    Paypal says contact the buyer and try and get the product back haha. Yeah, he has the money and the product, why would he give it back to me?

    It is not even the money, but the system that allows people to get away with this is ridiculous
     
  14. ff1227

    ff1227 Junior Member

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    If you didn't look like Justin Bieber, they would be more likely to side with you.
     
  15. ShadeDream

    ShadeDream Elite Member

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    Pay the buyer a visit? Do SEO work about his business? Sue him?
     
  16. masterofsites1985

    masterofsites1985 Junior Member

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    Just happened to me, in a span of a couple of days. Guy takes articles, wait 35 days and then does a charge back on the amount of money paid by mentioning credit card transactions not authorized. I am still waiting for paypal to dispute this.
    And the worst part is that the amount is only 10$, and there is enough proof that I have sent to nail this guy.
     
  17. thedorf

    thedorf Senior Member

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    Wow that sounds horrible. $2K?

    I thought paypal sided with the seller if there was proof of shipment. Guess I thought wrong. Not the first time.

    A newish way to take credit cards, without using paypal, and pretty much just as cheap, is to use SquareUp .com. They are a legit company with huge financial backing. I have an account there and so do business friends of mine.

    You are selling a $2k product so I assume you are legit yourself. SquareUp is not for goofy, blackhat type activities. They have good fraud detection, not that they would have caught something like this. I have not heard of a story like this associated with them.

    Thanks for the heads up about paypal. Seriously!~
     
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  18. phpbuilt

    phpbuilt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Paypal will fight for it, and it takes time.

    I had this exact same case, and I was more SOL than you. I had delivered a virtual product in an online game for like $300. The guy disputed it by saying he never authorized the payment. I filed everything I was supposed to with Paypal to contest it.

    Then I forgot about it.

    Then some 5 months later ... the money was put back into my paypal account. Paypal had won the case with the buyer's credit card company. The only thing they were trying to verify is whether or not the purchase was actually authorized, they concluded it was and gave the money back.

    Expect it to take time, but I think you have a very good shot at getting the money back. Make sure you're on the ball with filing everything paypal asks for.
     
  19. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    His business is basically gone. Tried calling it and no one picks up. The guys phone rings like if you were to call someone from out of the country.

    I think he did this, got the product, then bounced to Brazil. Still doesn't make sense why they would side with this idiot.

    And I don't think it is just paypal. I think any payment processor would do the same since the credit card company has full control over it not the processor.

    I have had this happen before where a person has the product, doesn't like it, doesn't want to pay for shipping or restocking fee (even though it clearly states that the buyer has to if they want to return and even though it was past the return date). This particlular case, the person had the product, I lost the dispute of course, and the person says "if you want your product back, you have to pay for the shipping or else you won't get the product back."
     
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  20. Dan Da Man

    Dan Da Man Elite Member Premium Member

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    Already happened. Paypal "fought" for me and it took 2 months. Then, I get an email saying I lost because it was up to the credit card company. Paypal won't response to my emails