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Not only is disavowing usually a waste of time for the standard sites that most BHW IMers build, it could be dangerous if you haven't received a manual penalty.
If rankings drops are due to algo changes, your website isn't on the radar. Once you disavow links you're calling manual reviewers' attention to your site, and in my experience that often results in "disavowed" sites receiving:
1. "Thin content" penalty
2. Undefined "violates webmaster guidelines" penalty
3. No obvious penalties, but a site that never recovers (because I'm convinced they attach a permanent but unstated penalty to sites that have disavowed links).

As Leith and others have said, wait for things to shake out - and if you don't have a manual penalty notification, don't overreact. Just look to see what you can do better, especially once more info comes out on exactly what G has done.,
 
One of my sites has dropped a bit. It has put me back to where was I was about 3 - 4 weeks ago with the SEO campaign. Kind of annoying, but it happens. I am experiencing wild dancing for a few big keywords. They were stable in the top 15 for the last month, but now bouncing between 20 and 55.
 
@whiteblackseo was kind enough to send me a few domains from the seller that got hit. Will be back shortly with my thoughts on why I think they may have been hit.

Okay, here are my thoughts on some flaws I found with the network/sites from the seller that got hit:
  1. I used 1 of the sites from the sellers network that got hit. To begin with, I wanted to see if I could find further sites using just the 1. I did. Found another 46 sites. In under an hour I think I uncovered the entire network (or most of it anyway). Not all 46 were deindexed though, some were indexed and fine.. so I guess a small % of the sellers network wasn't hit.
  2. The sites are pretty nicely designed, but all of them still have default WP footer text. Not really a huge issue SEO wise, but if you're going to spend time making the sites look nice then you might as well remove the footers with some alteration of the footer.php code. Only takes a few seconds-minutes.
  3. Some sites aren't clean. Wayback/archives show history of porn, sex products and chinese spam. For example, one of the domains: "single black women seeking big d*** men". This probably isn't the reason why the network got hit, but this is a sign of bad spam checking nevertheless.
  4. The majority of the 46 sites don't show full posts on the homepage. Again, this is probably not why the network got hit but it's worth pointing out anyway, since the seller claims the links go on the homepage for several weeks. This isn't the case. There's no excuse here really - all you need to do is go to content.php and replace "the_excerpt" with "the_content". Takes a few seconds to do and works on almost any theme. The customers who ordered this service missed out on a lot of potential juice because their links weren't available on the homepage (where most of the power of the domain is).
  5. Another issue was how the domain URL's were set up. For example, there were several domains originally indexed and set up as http://domain.com - yet all the power and metrics were on http://www.domain.com. Again, all the seller had to do was ask his team to log into WP, go to Settings > General and change the URL format. Takes a few seconds. It's a shame because some of the domains had wonderful metrics but the customers missed out on that juice due to this incorrect set up.
  6. Creating a footprint with the navigation menu. All of the sites in this network had more or less the exact same menu in the navigation. This is what I used to uncover most/all of the network. For example, if SITE1 had a nav menu with "Home" "Contact" "Terms" "Health" "Business" "Entertainment" "Tech" "Shopping", etc then you shouldn't be using the exact same menu in multiple sites. Now imagine the exact same nav menu in every single PBN site? Very easy footprint for anyone who is half decent at Google search strings. All someone would need to do is go into Google and enter the following:
"Home" "Contact" "Terms" "Health" "Business" "Entertainment" "Tech" "Shopping" "SNIPPET/KEYWORD"

Another way to uncover more sites in the same network would be to gather a list of all the keywords on one of the PBN sites. For example:

"clash of clans hack" "cheap holidays" "p90x review" "top 10 gaming laptops" "laptop repair new york"

Once you have this list, enter it into Google and you'll be left with all the PBN sites containing those specific terms.

To avoid this, spread out the keywords and OBL's on as many different domains as possible. If you only have 50 sites in your network, don't offer 50 posts as a package. Instead, maybe offer 25-30. This way you spread the risk and prevent someone from uncovering your entire network with a few clicks and searches.

Took me under an hour to find close to 50 sites. If I gave the task to my VA's, they probably would have been able to do it in less than 15-30mins.

Now that we've got the above flaws out of the way, here are some of the reasons why I personally think this network may have got deindexed:
  • Linking patterns. OBL's are the same on every domain in pretty much the same order. Whilst this may not be an issue when you have hundreds of sites, it's certainly an issue when you only have around 50-100 sites. It makes uncovering your entire PBN super easy and quick and anyone with a bit of common sense will be able to tell all the sites are connected. So you can imagine how easy it is for Google to tell all the sites are connected. However, I don't think this was the reason why the network got hit.
  • Hosting. I personally feel this is the reason why this network got hit. I checked all the sites/their IP's. The issue was I believe the seller was using a very popular SEO hosting (I could be wrong, but I double checked the IP's with the IP's I had in the past and they match up). I'm not going to give any names but this is a very widely used SEO hosting. Whilst this hosting company claims to be "safe", they're not - and I'm talking from experience. One of my personal networks (with around 50 sites) got hit last year using this same hosting. I thought I'd give them another chance so hosted another 40 sites with them. Want to know what happened? It got hit too. Whilst this particular hosting may be safe for the most part/smaller networks, I still think it's the #1 reason why the sellers network got hit. Let me go on..
Google possibly found a bunch of IP's, devalued them and as a result all spammy/unnatural sites hosted on those IP's were hit. Pretty plain and simple. The seller relied entirely on this company for the hosting. The network wouldn't have been hit if all the domains/majority of the domains were hosted with multiple companies. With Genesis PBN, all domains are hosted with various hosting services and companies, so in the event that our network gets hit due to the hosting, only a % of our sites will be actually hit.

To further prove my point, I took some of the IP's of the domains (that were deindexed) and did a reverse IP check:

IP1 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - all 18 PBN sites.
IP2 = 9 domains hosted on the same web server - all 9 PBN sites.
IP3 = 8 domains hosted on the same web server - 6 were PBN sites.
IP4 = 23 domains hosted on the same web server - 17 were PBN sites - 2 of these were adult PBN sites.
IP5 = 16 domains hosted on the same web server - 10 were PBN sites.
IP6 = 10 domains hosted on the same web server - 8 were PBN sites.
IP7 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - 14 were PBN sites.

I stopped after this but I'm certain the remainder of the IP's followed the same pattern.

The host may be offering "unique IPs" but the neighbourhood of these IP's are unnatural, risky and just asking for deindexation sooner or later. The common factor here is the IP and the bad neighbourhood. If Google decides to deindex a domain on a specific IP (either because it's spammy, is a PBN, has thin content, is adult, etc), all domains on that IP are going to get hit/reviewed.

To further prove my point, I picked 3 more IP's and did a reverse IP check:

IP8 = 9 domains hosted on the same web server - 6 were PBN sites.
IP9 = 12 domains hosted on the same web server - 9 were PBN sites.
IP10 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - 13 were PBN sites.

I then took the domains in each of the above 3 IP's and did an index check.

IP8 = out of 9 domains, 5 of the PBN sites are deindexed, the remaining PBN site seems to have passed the review.
IP9 = out of 12 domains, the 9 PBN sites are deindexed.
IP10 = out of 18 domains, 11 of the PBN sites are deindexed, the remaining 2 PBN sites seem to have passed the review.

What I believe happened was:
  1. An IP address gets flagged / picked out by the algorithm. The fact that you're using a SEO hosting increases the chances of the IP addresses being found and picked. In fact, I remember back in Aug/Sept 2016, a friends friend managed to find ALL the IP's from this very exact SEO hosting company. If he could find the full list himself using a few tricks up his sleeve, imagine Google. It's not hard.
  2. The IP is then marked as a potential home for many other spammy domains / PBN sites.
  3. The IP is flagged by the algorithm for quite possibly a manual review.
  4. A manual reviewer will then analyze and inspect each domain on the IP.
  5. Spammy, unnatural sites / PBN sites are deindexed.
  6. Rinse and repeat with another flagged IP.
The fact that you're using SEO hosting makes it an easy target for Google. This is why you see so many people telling you to avoid using SEO hosts. Unless you have a tiny network which you don't mind losing, avoid SEO hosts.

Or if you really, really want to use SEO hosting, then at least make sure you're using several hosts and not just a single one. This reduces your risks and should your network get hit, it will only get hit partially because you've hosted your sites with various hosts.

If you really want to play it safe, use premium hosting and pay the extra $ for various hosting accounts. Imaging hosting all your domains with 10 different, premium hosting accounts? Sure, it's a lot more hassle and headache BUT your risk has now reduced 10x. It's not the easiest of options but it's by far the safest. Again, nothing wrong with using a SEO host but SEO hosts tend to have extremely bad IP neighbourhoods. If you're adamant in using a SEO host, then at least make sure you use a couple various hosts instead of just one.

The key message we can learn here is to spread your risks and take care of your network.

Spread your risks: use various hosting companies so that your domains aren't all in a single basket. If you do get hit due to hosting problems, you'll only get hit partially because you've covered yourself by hosting with various hosts.

Take care of your network: just because your network is indexed now, doesn't mean it'll remain indexed forever. Take care of your network. Run index checks daily / weekly, keep an eye out for any bad sites in your IP neighbourhood, look out for viruses/malware on your sites, etc. If you spend the time looking after your network, you shouldn't face any problems. I say this with first hand experience. Back when I started with PBN's a few years ago, I would get lazy and just let the network sit in the background for months. This always usually led to a full deindexation of the network. Nowdays, my team spends a good hour or two daily running health checks on the network. This is one of the reasons why the network is still 100% indexed, as of today.

Now with all this being said, it's virtually impossible to keep your PBN 100% safe. The game we play is risky and Google seem to be going after PBN's with more force now more than ever. If your network does get hit, you need to understand this is part of the game we play. To PBN link buyers: if you purchased PBN links and the sellers network got hit, please try to understand from the sellers perspective. We're trying to game Google - it's not easy - it's not supposed to be easy - so when networks get deindexed or shit hits the fan, please understand that this is the game we're playing when we go up against Google's algorithm with stuff like PBN's. It's not always going to be a smooth road - so be prepared to face those hurdles as they come at you :)

*please excuse any typos or spelling mistakes*
 
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Okay, here are my thoughts on some flaws I found with the network/sites from the seller that got hit:


I appreciate you taking the time to asses the network, means a lot. I didn't think my simple ranking question would lead to this whole ordeal, this network was at the back of my mind. I'm so glad everyone on BHW is so close that even a far issue such as this led to something much larger.
 
That is crazy. This is some really basic stuff too (on the hosting part) - people are avoiding that kind of footprints even for a <10 personal PBN setup. It's basically the first step in regards to setting up a pbn.

I love everything else that you included, it really is useful - and not something that is completely obvious at first glance.

I just briefly went through a network of 60+ sites that got de-indexed (randomly chose 10). All of them seem to be in terrible IP neighborhoods too.

So it looks like pbns on SEO hosting took a hit in the past week.
 
Okay, here are my thoughts on some flaws I found with the network/sites from the seller that got hit:
  1. I used 1 of the sites from the sellers network that got hit. To begin with, I wanted to see if I could find further sites using just the 1. I did. Found another 46 sites. In under an hour I think I uncovered the entire network (or most of it anyway). Not all 46 were deindexed though, some were indexed and fine.. so I guess a small % of the sellers network wasn't hit.
  2. The sites are pretty nicely designed, but all of them still have default WP footer text. Not really a huge issue SEO wise, but if you're going to spend time making the sites look nice then you might as well remove the footers with some alteration of the footer.php code. Only takes a few seconds-minutes.
  3. Some sites aren't clean. Wayback/archives show history of porn, sex products and chinese spam. For example, one of the domains: "single black women seeking big d*** men". This probably isn't the reason why the network got hit, but this is a sign of bad spam checking nevertheless.
  4. The majority of the 46 sites don't show full posts on the homepage. Again, this is probably not why the network got hit but it's worth pointing out anyway, since the seller claims the links go on the homepage for several weeks. This isn't the case. There's no excuse here really - all you need to do is go to content.php and replace "the_excerpt" with "the_content". Takes a few seconds to do and works on almost any theme. The customers who ordered this service missed out on a lot of potential juice because their links weren't available on the homepage (where most of the power of the domain is).
  5. Another issue was how the domain URL's were set up. For example, there were several domains originally indexed and set up as http://domain.com - yet all the power and metrics were on http://www.domain.com. Again, all the seller had to do was ask his team to log into WP, go to Settings > General and change the URL format. Takes a few seconds. It's a shame because some of the domains had wonderful metrics but the customers missed out on that juice due to this incorrect set up.
  6. Creating a footprint with the navigation menu. All of the sites in this network had more or less the exact same menu in the navigation. This is what I used to uncover most/all of the network. For example, if SITE1 had a nav menu with "Home" "Contact" "Terms" "Health" "Business" "Entertainment" "Tech" "Shopping", etc then you shouldn't be using the exact same menu in multiple sites. Now imagine the exact same nav menu in every single PBN site? Very easy footprint for anyone who is half decent at Google search strings. All someone would need to do is go into Google and enter the following:
"Home" "Contact" "Terms" "Health" "Business" "Entertainment" "Tech" "Shopping" "SNIPPET/KEYWORD"

Another way to uncover more sites in the same network would be to gather a list of all the keywords on one of the PBN sites. For example:

"clash of clans hack" "cheap holidays" "p90x review" "top 10 gaming laptops" "laptop repair new york"

Once you have this list, enter it into Google and you'll be left with all the PBN sites containing those specific terms.

To avoid this, spread out the keywords and OBL's on as many different domains as possible. If you only have 50 sites in your network, don't offer 50 posts as a package. Instead, maybe offer 25-30. This way you spread the risk and prevent someone from uncovering your entire network with a few clicks and searches.

Took me under an hour to find close to 50 sites. If I gave the task to my VA's, they probably would have been able to do it in less than 15-30mins.

Now that we've got the above flaws out of the way, here are some of the reasons why I personally think this network may have got deindexed:
  • Linking patterns. OBL's are the same on every domain in pretty much the same order. Whilst this may not be an issue when you have hundreds of sites, it's certainly an issue when you only have around 50-100 sites. It makes uncovering your entire PBN super easy and quick and anyone with a bit of common sense will be able to tell all the sites are connected. So you can imagine how easy it is for Google to tell all the sites are connected. However, I don't think this was the reason why the network got hit.
  • Hosting. I personally feel this is the reason why this network got hit. I checked all the sites/their IP's. The issue was I believe the seller was using a very popular SEO hosting (I could be wrong, but I double checked the IP's with the IP's I had in the past and they match up). I'm not going to give any names but this is a very widely used SEO hosting. Whilst this hosting company claims to be "safe", they're not - and I'm talking from experience. One of my personal networks (with around 50 sites) got hit last year using this same hosting. I thought I'd give them another chance so hosted another 40 sites with them. Want to know what happened? It got hit too. Whilst this particular hosting may be safe for the most part/smaller networks, I still think it's the #1 reason why the sellers network got hit. Let me go on..
Google possibly found a bunch of IP's, devalued them and as a result all spammy/unnatural sites hosted on those IP's were hit. Pretty plain and simple. The seller relied entirely on this company for the hosting. The network wouldn't have been hit if all the domains/majority of the domains were hosted with multiple companies. With Genesis PBN, all domains are hosted with various hosting services and companies, so in the event that our network gets hit due to the hosting, only a % of our sites will be actually hit.

To further prove my point, I took some of the IP's of the domains (that were deindexed) and did a reverse IP check:

IP1 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - all 18 PBN sites.
IP2 = 9 domains hosted on the same web server - all 9 PBN sites.
IP3 = 8 domains hosted on the same web server - 6 were PBN sites.
IP4 = 23 domains hosted on the same web server - 17 were PBN sites - 2 of these were adult PBN sites.
IP5 = 16 domains hosted on the same web server - 10 were PBN sites.
IP6 = 10 domains hosted on the same web server - 8 were PBN sites.
IP7 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - 14 were PBN sites.

I stopped after this but I'm certain the remainder of the IP's followed the same pattern.

The host may be offering "unique IPs" but the neighbourhood of these IP's are unnatural, risky and just asking for deindexation sooner or later. The common factor here is the IP and the bad neighbourhood. If Google decides to deindex a domain on a specific IP (either because it's spammy, is a PBN, has thin content, is adult, etc), all domains on that IP are going to get hit/reviewed.

To further prove my point, I picked 3 more IP's and did a reverse IP check:

IP8 = 9 domains hosted on the same web server - 6 were PBN sites.
IP9 = 12 domains hosted on the same web server - 9 were PBN sites.
IP10 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - 13 were PBN sites.

I then took the domains in each of the above 3 IP's and did an index check.

IP8 = out of 9 domains, 5 of the PBN sites are deindexed, the remaining PBN site seems to have passed the review.
IP9 = out of 12 domains, the 9 PBN sites are deindexed.
IP10 = out of 18 domains, 11 of the PBN sites are deindexed, the remaining 2 PBN sites seem to have passed the review.

What I believe happened was:
  1. An IP address gets flagged / picked out by the algorithm. The fact that you're using a SEO hosting increases the chances of the IP addresses being found and picked. In fact, I remember back in Aug/Sept 2016, a friends friend managed to find ALL the IP's from this very exact SEO hosting company. If he could find the full list himself using a few tricks up his sleeve, imagine Google. It's not hard.
  2. The IP is then marked as a potential home for many other spammy domains / PBN sites.
  3. The IP is flagged by the algorithm for quite possibly a manual review.
  4. A manual reviewer will then analyze and inspect each domain on the IP.
  5. Spammy, unnatural sites / PBN sites are deindexed.
  6. Rinse and repeat with another flagged IP.
The fact that you're using SEO hosting makes it an easy target for Google. This is why you see so many people telling you to avoid using SEO hosts. Unless you have a tiny network which you don't mind losing, avoid SEO hosts.

Or if you really, really want to use SEO hosting, then at least make sure you're using several hosts and not just a single one. This reduces your risks and should your network get hit, it will only get hit partially because you've hosted your sites with various hosts.

If you really want to play it safe, use premium hosting and pay the extra $ for various hosting accounts. Imaging hosting all your domains with 10 different, premium hosting accounts? Sure, it's a lot more hassle and headache BUT your risk has now reduced 10x. It's not the easiest of options but it's by far the safest. Again, nothing wrong with using a SEO host but SEO hosts tend to have extremely bad IP neighbourhoods. If you're adamant in using a SEO host, then at least make sure you use a couple various hosts instead of just one.

The key message we can learn here is to spread your risks and take care of your network.

Spread your risks: use various hosting companies so that your domains aren't all in a single basket. If you do get hit due to hosting problems, you'll only get hit partially because you've covered yourself by hosting with various hosts.

Take care of your network: just because your network is indexed now, doesn't mean it'll remain indexed forever. Take care of your network. Run index checks daily / weekly, keep an eye out for any bad sites in your IP neighbourhood, look out for viruses/malware on your sites, etc. If you spend the time looking after your network, you shouldn't face any problems. I say this with first hand experience. Back when I started with PBN's a few years ago, I would get lazy and just let the network sit in the background for months. This always usually led to a full deindexation of the network. Nowdays, my team spends a good hour or two daily running health checks on the network. This is one of the reasons why the network is still 100% indexed, as of today.

Now with all this being said, it's virtually impossible to keep your PBN 100% safe. The game we play is risky and Google seem to be going after PBN's with more force now more than ever. If your network does get hit, you need to understand this is part of the game we play. To PBN link buyers: if you purchased PBN links and the sellers network got hit, please try to understand from the sellers perspective. We're trying to game Google - it's not easy - it's not supposed to be easy - so when networks get deindexed or shit hits the fan, please understand that this is the game we're playing when we go up against Google's algorithm with stuff like PBN's. It's not always going to be a smooth road - so be prepared to face those hurdles as they come at you :)

*please excuse any typos or spelling mistakes*

I was going to PM you a couple of domain names but I guess someone else did. Nice post.
 
I have done many disavows in my time & very rarely see any result from it. I would suggest pumping some fresh content through the site & working on your general onsite optimization. As said above, a lot of the time the site will bounce back. If you are impatient, try a new domain or moving to HTTPS.
 
Okay, here are my thoughts on some flaws I found with the network/sites from the seller that got hit:
  1. I used 1 of the sites from the sellers network that got hit. To begin with, I wanted to see if I could find further sites using just the 1. I did. Found another 46 sites. In under an hour I think I uncovered the entire network (or most of it anyway). Not all 46 were deindexed though, some were indexed and fine.. so I guess a small % of the sellers network wasn't hit.
  2. The sites are pretty nicely designed, but all of them still have default WP footer text. Not really a huge issue SEO wise, but if you're going to spend time making the sites look nice then you might as well remove the footers with some alteration of the footer.php code. Only takes a few seconds-minutes.
  3. Some sites aren't clean. Wayback/archives show history of porn, sex products and chinese spam. For example, one of the domains: "single black women seeking big d*** men". This probably isn't the reason why the network got hit, but this is a sign of bad spam checking nevertheless.
  4. The majority of the 46 sites don't show full posts on the homepage. Again, this is probably not why the network got hit but it's worth pointing out anyway, since the seller claims the links go on the homepage for several weeks. This isn't the case. There's no excuse here really - all you need to do is go to content.php and replace "the_excerpt" with "the_content". Takes a few seconds to do and works on almost any theme. The customers who ordered this service missed out on a lot of potential juice because their links weren't available on the homepage (where most of the power of the domain is).
  5. Another issue was how the domain URL's were set up. For example, there were several domains originally indexed and set up as http://domain.com - yet all the power and metrics were on http://www.domain.com. Again, all the seller had to do was ask his team to log into WP, go to Settings > General and change the URL format. Takes a few seconds. It's a shame because some of the domains had wonderful metrics but the customers missed out on that juice due to this incorrect set up.
  6. Creating a footprint with the navigation menu. All of the sites in this network had more or less the exact same menu in the navigation. This is what I used to uncover most/all of the network. For example, if SITE1 had a nav menu with "Home" "Contact" "Terms" "Health" "Business" "Entertainment" "Tech" "Shopping", etc then you shouldn't be using the exact same menu in multiple sites. Now imagine the exact same nav menu in every single PBN site? Very easy footprint for anyone who is half decent at Google search strings. All someone would need to do is go into Google and enter the following:
"Home" "Contact" "Terms" "Health" "Business" "Entertainment" "Tech" "Shopping" "SNIPPET/KEYWORD"

Another way to uncover more sites in the same network would be to gather a list of all the keywords on one of the PBN sites. For example:

"clash of clans hack" "cheap holidays" "p90x review" "top 10 gaming laptops" "laptop repair new york"

Once you have this list, enter it into Google and you'll be left with all the PBN sites containing those specific terms.

To avoid this, spread out the keywords and OBL's on as many different domains as possible. If you only have 50 sites in your network, don't offer 50 posts as a package. Instead, maybe offer 25-30. This way you spread the risk and prevent someone from uncovering your entire network with a few clicks and searches.

Took me under an hour to find close to 50 sites. If I gave the task to my VA's, they probably would have been able to do it in less than 15-30mins.

Now that we've got the above flaws out of the way, here are some of the reasons why I personally think this network may have got deindexed:
  • Linking patterns. OBL's are the same on every domain in pretty much the same order. Whilst this may not be an issue when you have hundreds of sites, it's certainly an issue when you only have around 50-100 sites. It makes uncovering your entire PBN super easy and quick and anyone with a bit of common sense will be able to tell all the sites are connected. So you can imagine how easy it is for Google to tell all the sites are connected. However, I don't think this was the reason why the network got hit.
  • Hosting. I personally feel this is the reason why this network got hit. I checked all the sites/their IP's. The issue was I believe the seller was using a very popular SEO hosting (I could be wrong, but I double checked the IP's with the IP's I had in the past and they match up). I'm not going to give any names but this is a very widely used SEO hosting. Whilst this hosting company claims to be "safe", they're not - and I'm talking from experience. One of my personal networks (with around 50 sites) got hit last year using this same hosting. I thought I'd give them another chance so hosted another 40 sites with them. Want to know what happened? It got hit too. Whilst this particular hosting may be safe for the most part/smaller networks, I still think it's the #1 reason why the sellers network got hit. Let me go on..
Google possibly found a bunch of IP's, devalued them and as a result all spammy/unnatural sites hosted on those IP's were hit. Pretty plain and simple. The seller relied entirely on this company for the hosting. The network wouldn't have been hit if all the domains/majority of the domains were hosted with multiple companies. With Genesis PBN, all domains are hosted with various hosting services and companies, so in the event that our network gets hit due to the hosting, only a % of our sites will be actually hit.

To further prove my point, I took some of the IP's of the domains (that were deindexed) and did a reverse IP check:

IP1 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - all 18 PBN sites.
IP2 = 9 domains hosted on the same web server - all 9 PBN sites.
IP3 = 8 domains hosted on the same web server - 6 were PBN sites.
IP4 = 23 domains hosted on the same web server - 17 were PBN sites - 2 of these were adult PBN sites.
IP5 = 16 domains hosted on the same web server - 10 were PBN sites.
IP6 = 10 domains hosted on the same web server - 8 were PBN sites.
IP7 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - 14 were PBN sites.

I stopped after this but I'm certain the remainder of the IP's followed the same pattern.

The host may be offering "unique IPs" but the neighbourhood of these IP's are unnatural, risky and just asking for deindexation sooner or later. The common factor here is the IP and the bad neighbourhood. If Google decides to deindex a domain on a specific IP (either because it's spammy, is a PBN, has thin content, is adult, etc), all domains on that IP are going to get hit/reviewed.

To further prove my point, I picked 3 more IP's and did a reverse IP check:

IP8 = 9 domains hosted on the same web server - 6 were PBN sites.
IP9 = 12 domains hosted on the same web server - 9 were PBN sites.
IP10 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - 13 were PBN sites.

I then took the domains in each of the above 3 IP's and did an index check.

IP8 = out of 9 domains, 5 of the PBN sites are deindexed, the remaining PBN site seems to have passed the review.
IP9 = out of 12 domains, the 9 PBN sites are deindexed.
IP10 = out of 18 domains, 11 of the PBN sites are deindexed, the remaining 2 PBN sites seem to have passed the review.

What I believe happened was:
  1. An IP address gets flagged / picked out by the algorithm. The fact that you're using a SEO hosting increases the chances of the IP addresses being found and picked. In fact, I remember back in Aug/Sept 2016, a friends friend managed to find ALL the IP's from this very exact SEO hosting company. If he could find the full list himself using a few tricks up his sleeve, imagine Google. It's not hard.
  2. The IP is then marked as a potential home for many other spammy domains / PBN sites.
  3. The IP is flagged by the algorithm for quite possibly a manual review.
  4. A manual reviewer will then analyze and inspect each domain on the IP.
  5. Spammy, unnatural sites / PBN sites are deindexed.
  6. Rinse and repeat with another flagged IP.
The fact that you're using SEO hosting makes it an easy target for Google. This is why you see so many people telling you to avoid using SEO hosts. Unless you have a tiny network which you don't mind losing, avoid SEO hosts.

Or if you really, really want to use SEO hosting, then at least make sure you're using several hosts and not just a single one. This reduces your risks and should your network get hit, it will only get hit partially because you've hosted your sites with various hosts.

If you really want to play it safe, use premium hosting and pay the extra $ for various hosting accounts. Imaging hosting all your domains with 10 different, premium hosting accounts? Sure, it's a lot more hassle and headache BUT your risk has now reduced 10x. It's not the easiest of options but it's by far the safest. Again, nothing wrong with using a SEO host but SEO hosts tend to have extremely bad IP neighbourhoods. If you're adamant in using a SEO host, then at least make sure you use a couple various hosts instead of just one.

The key message we can learn here is to spread your risks and take care of your network.

Spread your risks: use various hosting companies so that your domains aren't all in a single basket. If you do get hit due to hosting problems, you'll only get hit partially because you've covered yourself by hosting with various hosts.

Take care of your network: just because your network is indexed now, doesn't mean it'll remain indexed forever. Take care of your network. Run index checks daily / weekly, keep an eye out for any bad sites in your IP neighbourhood, look out for viruses/malware on your sites, etc. If you spend the time looking after your network, you shouldn't face any problems. I say this with first hand experience. Back when I started with PBN's a few years ago, I would get lazy and just let the network sit in the background for months. This always usually led to a full deindexation of the network. Nowdays, my team spends a good hour or two daily running health checks on the network. This is one of the reasons why the network is still 100% indexed, as of today.

Now with all this being said, it's virtually impossible to keep your PBN 100% safe. The game we play is risky and Google seem to be going after PBN's with more force now more than ever. If your network does get hit, you need to understand this is part of the game we play. To PBN link buyers: if you purchased PBN links and the sellers network got hit, please try to understand from the sellers perspective. We're trying to game Google - it's not easy - it's not supposed to be easy - so when networks get deindexed or shit hits the fan, please understand that this is the game we're playing when we go up against Google's algorithm with stuff like PBN's. It's not always going to be a smooth road - so be prepared to face those hurdles as they come at you :)

*please excuse any typos or spelling mistakes*

@Leith, thank you for a brilliant report
I have no doubt that all providers say that they don't do the things you have highlighted. Obviously at least one of them is lying through their fucking teeth, and this is one of the high end providers. I hate to think what the cheaper ones are doing
For the integrity of the forum, they should be outed, put on the shit list and banned from selling
Personally, if it was me who'd been ripped off, I'd be singing like a canary. We have enough problems fighting Google without being skanked by our own
 
Okay, here are my thoughts on some flaws I found with the network/sites from the seller that got hit:
  1. I used 1 of the sites from the sellers network that got hit. To begin with, I wanted to see if I could find further sites using just the 1. I did. Found another 46 sites. In under an hour I think I uncovered the entire network (or most of it anyway). Not all 46 were deindexed though, some were indexed and fine.. so I guess a small % of the sellers network wasn't hit.
  2. The sites are pretty nicely designed, but all of them still have default WP footer text. Not really a huge issue SEO wise, but if you're going to spend time making the sites look nice then you might as well remove the footers with some alteration of the footer.php code. Only takes a few seconds-minutes.
  3. Some sites aren't clean. Wayback/archives show history of porn, sex products and chinese spam. For example, one of the domains: "single black women seeking big d*** men". This probably isn't the reason why the network got hit, but this is a sign of bad spam checking nevertheless.
  4. The majority of the 46 sites don't show full posts on the homepage. Again, this is probably not why the network got hit but it's worth pointing out anyway, since the seller claims the links go on the homepage for several weeks. This isn't the case. There's no excuse here really - all you need to do is go to content.php and replace "the_excerpt" with "the_content". Takes a few seconds to do and works on almost any theme. The customers who ordered this service missed out on a lot of potential juice because their links weren't available on the homepage (where most of the power of the domain is).
  5. Another issue was how the domain URL's were set up. For example, there were several domains originally indexed and set up as http://domain.com - yet all the power and metrics were on http://www.domain.com. Again, all the seller had to do was ask his team to log into WP, go to Settings > General and change the URL format. Takes a few seconds. It's a shame because some of the domains had wonderful metrics but the customers missed out on that juice due to this incorrect set up.
  6. Creating a footprint with the navigation menu. All of the sites in this network had more or less the exact same menu in the navigation. This is what I used to uncover most/all of the network. For example, if SITE1 had a nav menu with "Home" "Contact" "Terms" "Health" "Business" "Entertainment" "Tech" "Shopping", etc then you shouldn't be using the exact same menu in multiple sites. Now imagine the exact same nav menu in every single PBN site? Very easy footprint for anyone who is half decent at Google search strings. All someone would need to do is go into Google and enter the following:
"Home" "Contact" "Terms" "Health" "Business" "Entertainment" "Tech" "Shopping" "SNIPPET/KEYWORD"

Another way to uncover more sites in the same network would be to gather a list of all the keywords on one of the PBN sites. For example:

"clash of clans hack" "cheap holidays" "p90x review" "top 10 gaming laptops" "laptop repair new york"

Once you have this list, enter it into Google and you'll be left with all the PBN sites containing those specific terms.

To avoid this, spread out the keywords and OBL's on as many different domains as possible. If you only have 50 sites in your network, don't offer 50 posts as a package. Instead, maybe offer 25-30. This way you spread the risk and prevent someone from uncovering your entire network with a few clicks and searches.

Took me under an hour to find close to 50 sites. If I gave the task to my VA's, they probably would have been able to do it in less than 15-30mins.

Now that we've got the above flaws out of the way, here are some of the reasons why I personally think this network may have got deindexed:
  • Linking patterns. OBL's are the same on every domain in pretty much the same order. Whilst this may not be an issue when you have hundreds of sites, it's certainly an issue when you only have around 50-100 sites. It makes uncovering your entire PBN super easy and quick and anyone with a bit of common sense will be able to tell all the sites are connected. So you can imagine how easy it is for Google to tell all the sites are connected. However, I don't think this was the reason why the network got hit.
  • Hosting. I personally feel this is the reason why this network got hit. I checked all the sites/their IP's. The issue was I believe the seller was using a very popular SEO hosting (I could be wrong, but I double checked the IP's with the IP's I had in the past and they match up). I'm not going to give any names but this is a very widely used SEO hosting. Whilst this hosting company claims to be "safe", they're not - and I'm talking from experience. One of my personal networks (with around 50 sites) got hit last year using this same hosting. I thought I'd give them another chance so hosted another 40 sites with them. Want to know what happened? It got hit too. Whilst this particular hosting may be safe for the most part/smaller networks, I still think it's the #1 reason why the sellers network got hit. Let me go on..
Google possibly found a bunch of IP's, devalued them and as a result all spammy/unnatural sites hosted on those IP's were hit. Pretty plain and simple. The seller relied entirely on this company for the hosting. The network wouldn't have been hit if all the domains/majority of the domains were hosted with multiple companies. With Genesis PBN, all domains are hosted with various hosting services and companies, so in the event that our network gets hit due to the hosting, only a % of our sites will be actually hit.

To further prove my point, I took some of the IP's of the domains (that were deindexed) and did a reverse IP check:

IP1 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - all 18 PBN sites.
IP2 = 9 domains hosted on the same web server - all 9 PBN sites.
IP3 = 8 domains hosted on the same web server - 6 were PBN sites.
IP4 = 23 domains hosted on the same web server - 17 were PBN sites - 2 of these were adult PBN sites.
IP5 = 16 domains hosted on the same web server - 10 were PBN sites.
IP6 = 10 domains hosted on the same web server - 8 were PBN sites.
IP7 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - 14 were PBN sites.

I stopped after this but I'm certain the remainder of the IP's followed the same pattern.

The host may be offering "unique IPs" but the neighbourhood of these IP's are unnatural, risky and just asking for deindexation sooner or later. The common factor here is the IP and the bad neighbourhood. If Google decides to deindex a domain on a specific IP (either because it's spammy, is a PBN, has thin content, is adult, etc), all domains on that IP are going to get hit/reviewed.

To further prove my point, I picked 3 more IP's and did a reverse IP check:

IP8 = 9 domains hosted on the same web server - 6 were PBN sites.
IP9 = 12 domains hosted on the same web server - 9 were PBN sites.
IP10 = 18 domains hosted on the same web server - 13 were PBN sites.

I then took the domains in each of the above 3 IP's and did an index check.

IP8 = out of 9 domains, 5 of the PBN sites are deindexed, the remaining PBN site seems to have passed the review.
IP9 = out of 12 domains, the 9 PBN sites are deindexed.
IP10 = out of 18 domains, 11 of the PBN sites are deindexed, the remaining 2 PBN sites seem to have passed the review.

What I believe happened was:
  1. An IP address gets flagged / picked out by the algorithm. The fact that you're using a SEO hosting increases the chances of the IP addresses being found and picked. In fact, I remember back in Aug/Sept 2016, a friends friend managed to find ALL the IP's from this very exact SEO hosting company. If he could find the full list himself using a few tricks up his sleeve, imagine Google. It's not hard.
  2. The IP is then marked as a potential home for many other spammy domains / PBN sites.
  3. The IP is flagged by the algorithm for quite possibly a manual review.
  4. A manual reviewer will then analyze and inspect each domain on the IP.
  5. Spammy, unnatural sites / PBN sites are deindexed.
  6. Rinse and repeat with another flagged IP.
The fact that you're using SEO hosting makes it an easy target for Google. This is why you see so many people telling you to avoid using SEO hosts. Unless you have a tiny network which you don't mind losing, avoid SEO hosts.

Or if you really, really want to use SEO hosting, then at least make sure you're using several hosts and not just a single one. This reduces your risks and should your network get hit, it will only get hit partially because you've hosted your sites with various hosts.

If you really want to play it safe, use premium hosting and pay the extra $ for various hosting accounts. Imaging hosting all your domains with 10 different, premium hosting accounts? Sure, it's a lot more hassle and headache BUT your risk has now reduced 10x. It's not the easiest of options but it's by far the safest. Again, nothing wrong with using a SEO host but SEO hosts tend to have extremely bad IP neighbourhoods. If you're adamant in using a SEO host, then at least make sure you use a couple various hosts instead of just one.

The key message we can learn here is to spread your risks and take care of your network.

Spread your risks: use various hosting companies so that your domains aren't all in a single basket. If you do get hit due to hosting problems, you'll only get hit partially because you've covered yourself by hosting with various hosts.

Take care of your network: just because your network is indexed now, doesn't mean it'll remain indexed forever. Take care of your network. Run index checks daily / weekly, keep an eye out for any bad sites in your IP neighbourhood, look out for viruses/malware on your sites, etc. If you spend the time looking after your network, you shouldn't face any problems. I say this with first hand experience. Back when I started with PBN's a few years ago, I would get lazy and just let the network sit in the background for months. This always usually led to a full deindexation of the network. Nowdays, my team spends a good hour or two daily running health checks on the network. This is one of the reasons why the network is still 100% indexed, as of today.

Now with all this being said, it's virtually impossible to keep your PBN 100% safe. The game we play is risky and Google seem to be going after PBN's with more force now more than ever. If your network does get hit, you need to understand this is part of the game we play. To PBN link buyers: if you purchased PBN links and the sellers network got hit, please try to understand from the sellers perspective. We're trying to game Google - it's not easy - it's not supposed to be easy - so when networks get deindexed or shit hits the fan, please understand that this is the game we're playing when we go up against Google's algorithm with stuff like PBN's. It's not always going to be a smooth road - so be prepared to face those hurdles as they come at you :)

*please excuse any typos or spelling mistakes*

Damn. Thanks @Leith - got tips there worth a million bucks mate. Took several notes for my own sites out of this ;)
 
Since other providers are posting, I figured I'd chime into say that all of our networks are fine, too.
And since we get to see what happens to clients' rankings - in addition to watching rankings for our own sites that aren't using public PBNs - I think it's safe to say that there's been an update over the last week that affected lots of people but had nothing to do with PBN links. That's not to say that some network(s) haven't been hit - just that there's definitely something else going on.

I'd pretty much agree with that. I'm not a PBN seller, but I have my own large PBN for personal use.

A few dozen client sites. A couple hundred keywords. Some have taken a big hit, some a modest hit, some have survived just fine. All relying very heavily on PBN backlinks.

I think if it was PBN-related, just about everything I'm working on would have crashed and burned.

That's not to say the Google update doesn't have anything to do with backlinks. It probably does. But I don't think it's about backlinks that come from PBNs. I think perhaps Google has changed how it weighs the importance of certain backlinks. And it just so happens that some of those backlinks come from PBNs, and some don't.

Of course I don't know more than anyone else here. So I probably really don't have a clue as to what's going on (I'm not convinced anyone does).

What I do know is that I've been through Google updates that had big, crazy fluctuations in SERPs before (I think about 15 months ago was the last really big one), and I (and my PBNs) came out fine. Over time.

I think the worst thing to do is to get radical and make crazy changes trying to "out guess" the algorithm. I'm just going to plug away as usual, adding some backlinks here and there over time. Nothing dramatic. Ride it out. See what happens in the coming weeks. I'll let Google do their A/B testing (that's my guess), wait for them to pick their path, and see what shakes out.


 
Everyone can say what they want I still say this update was targeted at pbns
 
Your best decision should be to wait, while this settles.
 
Everyone can say what they want I still say this update was targeted at pbns

Like all the updates since 2012. And yet, they still work. Miracles. :)

@Leith Great job there. I've been putting emphasis on points 3 and 5 mostly. Especially 3, though in this case the issue was somewhere else.
 
Like all the updates since 2012. And yet, they still work. Miracles. :)
@Leith Great job there. I've been putting emphasis on points 3 and 5 mostly. Especially 3, though in this case the issue was somewhere else.

That's absolutely right. #3 is definitely something many people neglect, because it's very time consuming so they don't bother (or don't realize the importance).
And I think it was pretty much established several "PBN sweeps" ago that SEO hosting is usually the first culprit to look for. No one should be using it anymore, period.

Leith, thanks for the great analysis and taking the time to do it.
(And I hope I haven't jinxed my own networks by posting in this thread ;) )
 
I got hit at 2 of my 3 websites 4 days ago, big hit, traffic is dropped by 80%.
I've done all the SEO on those sites myself, both of them has TF 25+ and I have built only strong links.
I have been first in SERP for the past 3 years, this doesn't make any sense unless google has a new way to find multiple websites that owned by the same company and punish them if the websites are in the same nitch.
 
3 of my kw drop 4-5 spot and 1 kw drop 30 spot.All PBN still indexed.I check my competitor and found he have same situation.Had no fuking ideas about this update
 
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