Negative SEO

len2503 · May 14, 2012

I've been following a number of threads both here and in the SEO world about
neg SEO, especially since Penguin.

It appears that people who do neg seo are considered to be a cross
between a child molester and someone who kills kittens.

Can someone tell me why? In a Black Hat World,
what is the ethical dilemma?

mikepaxston · May 14, 2012

I believe Ive been a victim of Neg SEO......

Karma is pretty real......

Ive always said, Karma will either pamper you or woop your ass.

I'll stay on the pampering end!!

len2503 · May 14, 2012

I'm not sure that I believe in Karma or "What goes around comes around"
I do believe that we reap what we sow.

However

I reckon we've seen some serious things happen in these last few weeks.

A consigliere, especially a Wartime Consigliere, acts for his clients without fear.
Sometimes you gotta do what needs to be done

illfounded21 · May 14, 2012

It's just going about your job (to rank) in the wrong way. All it means is you encourage more negative seo by doing it yourself, it is a slippery slope. The more you focus on damaging someone else and not focussing on how you can improve, means that you will fail to improve your own ability. And as yoda said- 'anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering'. Don't just take my word for it ha!

alterbuu · May 14, 2012

Think about this way. You own a car wash then I come along build a car wash next door then burn yours down. It's real clear how wrong that is because it's in the real world, but it's the same thing.

bilbo · May 14, 2012

i approve of negative SEO. Its blackhat and as google has spanked a lot of sites that are using blackhat techniques ( as they want to rank above the competition ), then its fair game to get the competition spanked as well. Just repair your site and start using xrumer again on the competition.

len2503 · May 14, 2012

illfounded21 said:
It's just going about your job (to rank) in the wrong way. All it means is you encourage more negative seo by doing it yourself, it is a slippery slope. The more you focus on damaging someone else and not focussing on how you can improve, means that you will fail to improve your own ability.

When you are being shot at, the easiest thing to do is to say "Don't shoot back. You'll only encourage the buggers". A Wartime Consigliere, would prefer not to engage in confrontation
because it's very expensive for his client. However, he is not afraid of it either. As far as failing to improve my own ability - I think I can respond that
recent events have put paid to a number of ideas. Firstly "It's all about links" - Not any more it aint. Most link sellers here are pooping their pants. It dont work any more.
Secondly lets such up to Google. Lets give really great content. Sorry Guys that dont work any more. I can show you a number of well respected sites that
went nowhere after recent changes. Shit even Seer Interactive didn't rank for its own name for over 12 hours !!. And I can show a site with a blank page
the ranked at number 10 on page 1 for "Make Money Online".

I dont think its going to get better. I just want to be a great wartime consigliere for my clients and that means WINNING.

That might seem harsh but its realistic

len2503 · May 14, 2012

alterbuu said:
Think about this way. You own a car wash then I come along build a car wash next door then burn yours down. It's real clear how wrong that is because it's in the real world, but it's the same thing.

Its nothing like the same thing. We are not talking about bricks and mortar businesses. We are talking about competitors that are
already using link type strategies and have no other profile except online

illfounded21 · May 14, 2012

You mention a wartime situation, and I understand the point you are making. However, by using neg seo as a weapon in war, it means you are increasing the likelihood that your enemy will now use this weapon. You are arming your enemy. This might be a good strategy for the short term, but lacks the long term vision a true strategist would have.

len2503 · May 14, 2012

illfounded21 said:
You mention a wartime situation, and I understand the point you are making. However, by using neg seo as a weapon in war, it means you are increasing the likelihood that your enemy will now use this weapon. You are arming you enemy. This might be a good strategy for the short term, but lacks the long term vision a true strategist would have.

Sure - understood. If I am using neg seo as a tactic (not a strategy) it's only got to be temporary because,as you say, my enemy can do likewise. However i would expect my advice
to my client to be to clean up his own site, and don't rely on things that Big G disapproves and don't rely on G for traffic. (There is an element here though of sucking up to Google.
"Yes I know he hits me and abuses me, but i LOVE HIM" - Now as Potpiegirl says, "Thats an abusive relationship".)

No-one really wants to use such tactics but sometimes needs must. What would you do, to negatively affect the enemies position. (Maybe I should read the Art of War)

ija61 · May 14, 2012

Well first of all I do not think negativeseo is possible. I did not test it but. First of all, all the method and tools used for negativeseo I use them to rank my website. Second you must get down 7-8 website to get where you need and this will be more difficult then concentrate on one website (yours). More than that I did not see any of those how tell they do negative seo take the challenge that Rand Fishkin (the seomoz founder) launched, to take down seomoz.

I do believe and also test it that it is possible to get down an website but this will not be forever and the it may come back stronger so....

In other point of view the so called proof that negative seo exist (gotcars... or something like this) it was more a personal vendeta and to do this kind of action take you a lot of time and that is not negative seo that is war... you can get the same result by hacking the server. Is possible to get down an website but not in the real meaning of SEO.

Black hat technique means that you "fight" directly with G not with your competitors.
[h=3][/h]

illfounded21 · May 14, 2012

Haha, Sun Tzu for the Internet era.

len2503 said:
Sure - understood. If I am using neg seo as a tactic (not a strategy) it's only got to be temporary because,as you say, my enemy can do likewise. However i would expect my advice
to my client to be to clean up his own site, and don't rely on things that Big G disapproves and don't rely on G for traffic. (There is an element here though of sucking up to Google.
"Yes I know he hits me and abuses me, but i LOVE HIM" - Now as Potpiegirl says, "Thats an abusive relationship".)

No-one really wants to use such tactics but sometimes needs must. What would you do, to negatively affect the enemies position. (Maybe I should read the Art of War)

assphuck · May 14, 2012

ija61 said:
Black hat technique means that you "fight" directly with G not with your competitors.

That would be an ill defined definition of black hat SEO. Black hat is a broad term which describes most any "unethical" methods to rank a site in terms of SEO. That would include negative SEO as well. Ones personal preference in regards to negative SEO has nothing to do with the point that negative SEO is indeed a black hat technique.

bilbo · May 14, 2012

Mubashirshafi said:
Spamming is over all around the world.

hmm thats deep!

well i have experimented and it seems to work - PR3/2 sites seem to be affected when u have a sustained blast

len2503 · May 14, 2012

ija61 said:
Well first of all I do not think negativeseo is possible. I did not test it but. First of all, all the method and tools used for negativeseo I use them to rank my website. Second you must get down 7-8 website to get where you need and this will be more difficult then concentrate on one website (yours). More than that I did not see any of those how tell they do negative seo take the challenge that Rand Fishkin (the seomoz founder) launched, to take down seomoz.

Firstly, there IS proof but you choose to ignore it. The Gotcars example 'may' have been a personal vendetta but so what? Did the negative seo work? Yes it did. As far as the Rand Fishkin challenge goes, it was a false challenge - he can easily get Google to defend his rank especially as he is a Google whore IMHO. But that actually leaves aside a point I want to make. ..... as a Wartime Consigliere,. I do not allow my enemy to choose the ground. I choose where and when I fight.

I do believe and also test it that it is possible to get down an website but this will not be forever and the it may come back stronger so....

Yeah - I've heard this excuse before and I don't believe it. Since Penguin, a site can be taken down and KEPT down

In other point of view the so called proof that negative seo exist (gotcars... or something like this) it was more a personal vendeta and to do this kind of action take you a lot of time and that is not negative seo that is war... you can get the same result by hacking the server. Is possible to get down an website but not in the real meaning of SEO

.

"This is not negative SEO - this is war". Yes this is war! Wake up and smell the coffee. Hacking a server is illegal. Neg SEO is legal and Neg SEO is still SEO

Black hat technique means that you "fight" directly with G not with your competitors.

Sorry but I don't want to be rude but when did you decide to be the person to define what is and what is not Black Hat??

mickyfu · May 14, 2012

I have never really been a fan of nseo, but then again I have never been a fan of having no money due to Google's pathetic god status. If it is the only way forward then you must get in there first whether it is moral or not. I would rather be immoral and have money than an unemployed moral person.

len2503 · May 14, 2012

i'm not convinced that nseo is immoral. That would be accepting their terms.

logical · May 14, 2012

War time consigliere? you crack me up. But seriously...who won world war 2? switzerland...why? because they took money from everyone but didn't get caught up in the actual fighting. The latest google penguin slap will pass, just as panda passed then who will wind up winning is the person who has concentrated on their own site rather than aiming at ruining other peoples.

UnixGuy · May 14, 2012

yup happened to like 5 of my sites sucks pretty bad lost some serous $$$

JACOb5 · May 14, 2012

only problem with negative seo is you never know when google will change its algo again since searches are messed up right now and then you might have just helped your competitor to rank higher.

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