Negative SEO - is this really going to happen??

kideze said:

Yes it works, its been documented a couple times on here that it works. google needs to fix this because for them putting neg points to bad links opens the doors to competitors. Only sites that cant really be knocked off are the new york dailys and the amazon's types but everything is open for neg seo

Click to expand...

This is not true. (Atleast not in all cases) I had a amazon page outranking my MNS that I just couldent pass to get to #1.

So I decided to try Neg Seo because I knew I couldent hurt Amazons income in the long run. but they were slowing down mine.

I Spamed the amazon page with a tones of xrumer and SB backlinks for 2 weeks strait using only 1 ancor text and posing on bad negiborhod sites. (AKA porn, violence, gore, racist, anti goverment, drug, child porn,)

I also redirected 3 De-indexed domains to the page.

Now the Amazon page is not even in the top 1000 and this was 30 days ago.

You probably couldn't do this with all amazon pages but it is possable.

For this reason I know if we all baned together we could de rank mattcutts blog for his own name. (Then he would correct it manualy)

This is exactly the sort of thread google wants to see.They can't get rid blackhatters with updates(there is always a blackhatter in the serps,might not be you but it;'s there)so let them get rid of each other.If someone does it to you and you have absolute proof,do not stop until their site is gone with the wind.I'm just not that big into randomly ruining someones income because they are ahead of me.
It seems some people think google owes them and if they don't rank then to hell with everyone else making some cash as well.

kvmcable said:

That's my whole beef with G. Before this year they did just discount bad links and said so many times and my experience was this WAS true. Then this year they got a hair up their ass and said screw that, let's penalize for bad links and make it RETROACTIVE. There lies my problem with Google. It should have never been made retroactive because site owners can't remove the majority of links that are out there pointing towards their websites years after they were made.

My main money maker that was #1 for the last year or 18 months hasn't had any link building for at least that long. It was #1 and I figured until it slipped I would let sleeping dogs lie. It got the un-natural link notice in mid-March and fell 5 weeks later. So unless a competitor hammered the website which I don't see any evidence of, the website was penalized for shit that happened over a year ago and maybe two years ago. There is no excuse IMO for Google to behave so irrationally. Set the rule, show the penalties if you break the rules and move forward. Everyone knows what to expect. What they did was borderline criminal IMO and cost me over a grand a week in net revenue. You don't create a penalty today and make it retroactive to shit that happened years ago.

Anyhow, good luck to everyone and see you at the top. I know real SEO experts will adapt and put their sites right back where they belong.

Click to expand...

Well it was possible to hit sites with bad links before, just took a lot more effort.
However, now, the tipping point is so low that there's really no rhyme or reason to it. I've made 10 sites post penguin and every site got the same treatment as far as links to it (web 2.0s with a great tier 2 of web 2.0s in a wheel, this was by the thousands per site, and a lot of manual work on high PR pages, guest posts blahblah) and every site has been treated differently by the algorithm.

These sites even had blog posts to different sites on the same web 2.0 account... so they were literally the same links for all intents and purposes. Some shot up, others stalled early.

I cannot pin down what is going on... at all. Fresh sites with 100 paid for blogroll links jump to page 1 (tried this also), and disappear after a month... still seeing a lot of 301 redirections all over

It seems some people think google owes them and if they don't rank then to hell with everyone else making some cash as well.

Click to expand...

Google doesn't owe people anything, they need a uniformly applied algorithm for organic results. Google cannot favor itself in results nor can it punish one site and boost another that both use the same techniques.
I'm not sure how you think the above is legal, but strictly applying the laws in the US they are far outside the bounds of allowable conduct. Particularly the use of cross service information to boost revenues in search by hosting results. Hell, this is precisely what the FTC and EC are saying they have to stop, right now, and give them a look at the algorithm to ensure it's not doing anything illegal, especially with personal information.

cloakndagger said:

This is exactly the sort of thread google wants to see.They can't get rid blackhatters with updates(there is always a blackhatter in the serps,might not be you but it;'s there)so let them get rid of each other.If someone does it to you and you have absolute proof,do not stop until their site is gone with the wind

.I'm just not that big into randomly ruining someones income because they are ahead of me.

Click to expand...

Agree with what you have said.
->This is perfect for G, as the blackhatters destroy each other.
->Ruining someone's income out of the blue is pretty raw.

googlemonster said:

I can't understand how buying links through their adwords problem is deemed ok, yet it isn't on someone else's website. This to me screams monopolistic practice, greed, double standards call it what you will, I am not sure who's at the center whether it is that cubed headed wanker Matt Cutts or some of their upper directors. Also what other things do they do? What data do they use against us, what data do they save, all this needs to be transparent. Do they use Google analytics to find out things etc.

Click to expand...

In my opinion, Google sets us up to fall.

Look at the seo history. Matt is always running his mouth preaching to others how to improve your serps, such as article marketing, blog comments, forum signatures, do follow links, and now it's anchor text. Then, the next update or so, the algorithm targets his recommendations. I don't listen to his bs, because that is what it is, bs.

Go back and watch his older videos. I don't know how Google hasn't been sued yet. Matt is an employee of Google and is CLEARLY misrepresenting webmasters.

Just my observation.

The biggest problem is that if you hit the #1 and you're #2, don't you think that they might suspect you were the one that hit you or if they want to be sure, they could just get a few cheap fiverr gigs and hit the top 3 left standing. It doesn't matter who fires first, it can quickly become assured mutual destruction - everyone on the front page could end up on page 5 and worse while everyone on page 2 is now making money, until they start firing nukes. ;(

Expertpeon said:

I'm not sure how you think the above is legal, but strictly applying the laws in the US they are far outside the bounds of allowable conduct. Particularly the use of cross service information to boost revenues in search by hosting results. Hell, this is precisely what the FTC and EC are saying they have to stop, right now, and give them a look at the algorithm to ensure it's not doing anything illegal, especially with personal information.

Click to expand...

I've said this before - but I believe this entire situation will end in Internet regulation. Once the law makers realise just how far outside the Law a company like Google can act, the lid will be screwed down so tightly on the Internet that no one will be able to move without approval.

World Wide West, Rawr! gonna try to deface somebodys serp just for lolz, i keep it posted

KodeXs said:

World Wide West, Rawr! gonna try to deface somebodys serp just for lolz, i keep it posted

Click to expand...

and this is what is the most wrong about this... some idiot with a gun just shooting wild and not even caring who it hits nor how much work that the guy/gal put into it. It's one thing to drop an Amazon listing that ranks above your site - they bring in $50B a year, but that random website or one that is ranked above yours (but isn't doing anything nasty to you), is just someone like you trying to make a living... how would you like to be hit by some random guy with some time to spare and an itchy trigger finger?

OldSalt said:

and this is what is the most wrong about this... some idiot with a gun just shooting wild and not even caring who it hits nor how much work that the guy/gal put into it. It's one thing to drop an Amazon listing that ranks above your site - they bring in $50B a year, but that random website or one that is ranked above yours (but isn't doing anything nasty to you), is just someone like you trying to make a living... how would you like to be hit by some random guy with some time to spare and an itchy trigger finger?

Click to expand...

OldSalt [as usual] hit the nail on the head.

As I have said before, it is one thing fighting it out with A) another blackhatter who know's the tricks too or B) A large corporate company, as realistically no one will get hurt; BUT it is a whole different situation when it may be someones only source of income, and have no knowledge or care for these techniques - legit sites.

Their site may have taken years to build, they may have sunk their earnings and time into it, and may even rely on it to help support their family. To have it destroyed by some chump [*cough KodeXs cough*] who just either thinks it's all a game, or doesn't really understand the damage that can be done is a sickening thought.

I know this is a blackhat forum, and NSEO is black as it gets, it just makes me feel rather uncomfortable...

cloakndagger said:

This is exactly the sort of thread google wants to see.They can't get rid blackhatters with updates(there is always a blackhatter in the serps,might not be you but it;'s there)so let them get rid of each other.

Click to expand...

Oh come on!! Who is to say who targets who with all this? What is for certain, is that the Matt Cutts INVITATION is extended ONLY TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO SPAM!! That's what so shitty about all this. Go ask your local grocery store owner or doctor or shrink or electrician who Matt Cutts is they haven't a fucking clue! Ask them what xrummer is and they might suggest its a running shoe. 99% + of folk out there have no idea whatsoever about blackhat yellow hat or any fucking hat! Talking about throwing out the babes with the bathwater! What Google is trying to suggest is that everybody who has website KNOWS what they're doing!! IT'S UTTER BULLSHIT! Look how many Weebly sites there are, look how many google-pages, facebook business pages etc etc. Your local plumber doesn't know and does not care about any kind of hat except maybe a 'hard hat' for a building site. Google are simply saying to all who know how to play, 'Target the innocent, rob them of their serps, take an easy ride to the top. The really big Black-Hat guns don't target each other, they're mostly rich first-name mates anyway and don't want to fight too hard. Heck there are so many easy targets, why fight among each other when the signs are so easy to spot anyway. Nah,, Google declared war on the naive Public a long time ago. 'Oh we must collect your data, oh we must photograph your house, oh we must know what you are looking at, oh we must know what you buy, oh oh oh... Fuckers! They are absolute bastards and there is no end to their greed and I doubt very much if there are any limits at all when it comes down to what they'll do to get what they want. I FEAR what those people are really up to and I have no doubt that its something that will make Hitler sound like a saint.

Big G wants black hatters to destroy each other

xxxxmenas said:

Big G wants black hatters to destroy each other

Click to expand...

And when black hatters destroy white hatters as well?
It's not like there's really any reason that negative SEO would only work on black hat sites.

Expertpeon said:

And when black hatters destroy white hatters as well?
It's not like there's really any reason that negative SEO would only work on black hat sites.

Click to expand...

The one site I currently have is completely white hat. I would be pissed if some random person nuked it and wasted all of my work.

white hatters would be caught in cross-fire too. Basically, everyone loses except the big brands like amazon because they will always be in top positions. So, NegSEO is a very bad move by Google.

Yeah it deff works i know because i blasted my own site with xrumer with 5000 list only 2 times and linklicious the links and 2 days later bam=) my site isnt anywhere.Also using diffrent anchors doesnt make a diffrence. I cant belive you can ruin a honest business with a simple 1 hour xrumer or sb blast. It is a shame for google.

kmvc, you mention that the "real SEO experts" will find a way to the top by adapting sooner or later. well, just a month ago I thought I was a pretty badass seo compared to most newbs who try it and fail. i was doing everything "right", now that "right" is completely fucking wrong. it's like a man who gets pleasure from sex with women one day, then the next day he gets equal pleasure from running as far away as possible from women who want to have sex with him. There is also a bizarre randomness with this update that I have never seen before. I can do the exact same thing to two sites, and one will go up and stay there, the other will tank. You're more likely to get success if you are just plain lucky rather than an expert at the moment.

I also agree that what Google is doing is in fact illegal and it will get what's coming to it, in due course. It will take time for laws to catch up but it will happen. It's unfortunate that, at the moment, BHers are fighting amongst themselves, spamming eachother to the oblivion. It really is ideal for them, change the algo, let us kill eachother off rather than them doing all the work. It's very economical for them if you think about it. Add to that all the people giving up and flocking to Adwords. It's so good it should be illegal - but it's not!

YET

I think those that said Google wants bh'ers to take each other out are VERY wrong. Because as others have said, its not bh'ers vs bh'ers its bh'ers vs Google and its ALL SITE / EVERYONE in the way.
then its all sites vs all sites

WE ARE NOT RACISTS HERE! =)))))
black white gray - get out of the way

yes. they are FORCING it.
look at the sites and their power..
Google - NO COMPETITION
PP - NO COMPETITION
Ebay - NO COMPETITION
FB - NO COMPETITION
Craigslist - NO COMPETITION

These few companies are running the internet and creating laws out of thin air.
PP and their banking rules that they create and ONLY use when they see fit.
CraigsList using their power and money to seize anything at will and creating their own laws
FB - i was banned the day their IPO was due to release because i posted i wanted to short
their stock. (DO NOT PM FOR STOCK TIPS!haha)
Etc....

""kendra I've said this before - but I believe this entire situation will end in Internet regulation. Once the law makers realise just how far outside the Law a company like Google can act, the lid will be screwed down so tightly on the Internet that no one will be able to move without approval.""

Here's how I see it...

Penguin has nothing to do with back links, it simply checks your page for too much keyword stuffing, hidden text, etc etc.. If it finds problems it will give you hate points, the more hate points, that faster you drop in rank. Now, if your page drops.. then all the links out lose their value, and those pages you're linking to can lose rank if enough of the pages linking to it receive allot of hate points.


As far as negative s.e.o., the page you're trying to kill may actually go up for awhile until the 'older' algorithm that handles the back links sees all the links and devalues them, then the site should go right back to where it was, or drop depending on how many negative links have been created.