Negativ SEO job

fistor said:

And what would "real seo" be in this case ?
rank 9 (NINE) additional sites just to outrank 1 ?

My god.. i have better things to do, seriously.
That site is no competitor, but a 100% hate site - why even ask ? i'd do it without thinking about it for a second.

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I can't imagine why the OP got the invitation to take care of this situation.. And not you.

Everything you say is true.. Real SEO is just too hard. Especially on an extremely low competition keyword with only one competitor.

Sounds like half of you are all one step away from "dump the site and start another one, this is impossible!" (This is why you don't ask a bunch of internet marketers about SEO. If Traffic Travis says it's too hard.. It's too hard.)

Sorry, I had a witty little one liner about what you folks are doing on a SEO forum, but I couldn't find any good links to a Tinker Toy forum.

[edit]

On an unrelated note, if I were your client, I would expect you to FIX this problem. If you FIX their problem, they will probably have future work/references for you. Do it right the first time, unless your time isn't valuable and your clients are not a priority.

And as long as your clients are the ones paying your bills, YOU DO NOT HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO. That is an idiotic mentality from a terrible business person and the titles under their usernames are a good indication of the advice they're giving you.

Baldor said:

Would you take a negative SEO job?

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Of course.

meatro said:

I can't imagine why the OP got the invitation to take care of this situation.. And not you.

Everything you say is true.. Real SEO is just too hard. Especially on an extremely low competition keyword with only one competitor.

Sounds like half of you are all one step away from "dump the site and start another one, this is impossible!" (This is why you don't ask a bunch of internet marketers about SEO. If Traffic Travis says it's too hard.. It's too hard.)

Sorry, I had a witty little one liner about what you folks are doing on a SEO forum, but I couldn't find any good links to a Tinker Toy forum.

[edit]

On an unrelated note, if I were your client, I would expect you to FIX this problem. If you FIX their problem, they will probably have future work/references for you. Do it right the first time, unless your time isn't valuable and your clients are not a priority.

And as long as your clients are the ones paying your bills, YOU DO NOT HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO. That is an idiotic mentality from a terrible business person and the titles under their usernames are a good indication of the advice they're giving you.

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Haha. Elitist

So his client pays his bills. asks for him to do service X. yet you are telling him to offer his client service Y ?
Im making 1-5k € a month. depending on the season. and i do whatever my customers are asking me to do.
because u know... they are paying my bills, amirite?

And sorry but no. you are NOT his client. because his client asked him to nuke that site that tries to HARM HIM. not to "fix" anything. read again, mister exclusive status donor vip sir.

meatro said:

That's a terrible idea.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said.

fistor said:

Haha. Elitist

So his client pays his bills. asks for him to do service X. yet you are telling him to offer his client service Y ?
Im making 1-5k € a month. depending on the season. and i do whatever my customers are asking me to do.
because u know... they are paying my bills, amirite?
.

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No your not.

Your client is paying for your expertise, and most clients have stupid cocking SEO ideas like this. It's your job to tell them that they are wrong. It's your duty to tell them how high risk the idea is, and how it could completely backfire and have the complete opposite effect. It's honorable to admit that no-one even knows for sure whether negative SEO even exists or works in this way.

Someone who just does what their clients tell them to do because they are paying them is as far away from a professional as it's possible to be.
If you clients just want a link building drone - let them hire one.
If they want an SEO professional, then do your job properly, and if they won't let you or insist you do stuff that is counter productive or you are not ethically happy doing, tell them so, and if they get funny QUIT.
Because at that point they are no longer paying for an SEO expert, they're paying for a dickless drone.

Anyone who just does what they are told because someone is paying for them is a borderline sociopath.

Scritty

fistor said:

Haha. Elitist

So his client pays his bills. asks for him to do service X. yet you are telling him to offer his client service Y ?
Im making 1-5k € a month. depending on the season. and i do whatever my customers are asking me to do.
because u know... they are paying my bills, amirite?

And sorry but no. you are NOT his client. because his client asked him to nuke that site that tries to HARM HIM. not to "fix" anything. read again, mister exclusive status donor vip sir.

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Ok, so when you take your car to the shop and tell them you think it's a problem with the muffler.. You want them only to inspect the muffler? Or do you want them to fix the issue? What if you're wrong? What if the problem is a cracked exhaust manifold? That's not part of the muffler. What if you tell them it's the muffler, but it's actually a problem with the exhaust pipe, just before the muffler?

"So you can't fix this?"
"Well, if you look here.. The muffler's fine."
"Ok, but it still makes that rattling noise."
"Yeah, because you have a cracked exhaust pipe."
"........ Um...... Ok, so you can't fix this?"
"OMG, how many times do I have to tell you? THE MUFFLER IS FINE!"
"Well, just fix the problem."
"Fine, there we fixed it. That'll be $200."
"It's still rattling."
"Yeah, because you have a cracked exhaust pipe."
"You didn't fix it??"
"You told us to fix the muffler!!"

Go back to my first post where I said, "I would take this job, but first I would explain to them the difference between negative SEO and reputation management."

You don't explain to your clients what services you offer and what those services entail? That's a great strategy, please post the name of your business here so that I can be sure to avoid.. I mean, send you tons of leads.

My point is, an eye for an eye is not the best strategy in this scenario. The best strategy is safety goggles so you don't have to worry about getting poked in the eye anymore.

It's common sense and I'm happy to sell you some.

I would personally buy fiverr gigs (xrummer and scrapebox) and blast it off the map. Why spend how many hours trying to fill up the first page with a bunch of stuff when you can literally get rid of them in minutes. Quick, cheap, easy, and effective. NOW the only problem is that you have to worry about him doing this to your site, which shouldnt be much of a concern because chances are if he knows about it he will do it anyways since he is obviously pissed off. If I was him I would blast your site as well, which will probably happen anyways.

^ Well that's motivational. Real problem solver.

meatro said:

Ok, so when you take your car to the shop and tell them you think it's a problem with the muffler.. You want them only to inspect the muffler? Or do you want them to fix the issue? What if you're wrong? What if the problem is a cracked exhaust manifold? That's not part of the muffler. What if you tell them it's the muffler, but it's actually a problem with the exhaust pipe, just before the muffler?

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If I told them to inspect the muffler, I OBIVOUSLY want them to only check the muffler and not some other crap.(and prolly even charge me extra for that) because that is exactly what i told them to do.

If i told them to "fix the problem - maybe its the muffler??" thats a whole other scenario. as i said, read again.

Ya never know what can happen. Look at this company that put out a bounty on a negative seo'ers head: http://www.logogarden.com/blog/branding/negative-seo-victim-strikes-back/

Personally I would avoid accepting a NSEO job with a ten foot pole.

fistor said:

If I told them to inspect the muffler, I OBIVOUSLY want them to only check the muffler and not some other crap.(and prolly even charge me extra for that) because that is exactly what i told them to do.

If i told them to "fix the problem - maybe its the muffler??" thats a whole other scenario. as i said, read again.

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Well that's a retarded mindset. Not accepting help when it's given to you. You go to a doctor to check your arm, and only your arm, so you don't want him to tell you about the tumor that showed up in your scan that's not in your arm, because you asked about your arm and only your arm.

Okay.
Die from your hidden tumor then.
(And "prolly" save some money by not saving your life.)

xenix9 said:

What IF you had an OFFLINE business making $100,000 in revenue monthly - and a client from hell creates a hate website about your business and your revenue drops to $20,000 .

After trying every issue to resolve the situation with said client, he still refuses to take down the hate site, and negotiates with ridiculous demands and possible extortion.

Would you do Negative SEO to take down his site ?

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Exactly. All of the people who answered no, if this was their site they would be blasting the hate site to high heaven. Its easy to act all ethical and shit when it aint your ass or families survival on the line. It would actually be stupid not to. If my business was in jeopardy because of this hate site I would not even hestitate to blast it. Why would I give 2 shits about some person that is trying to destroy me? I would then proceed to fill up the first page after to protect it.

Ok, whatever. I wont respond anymore.
Most of you are not doing real business..

I have lived in the f****n dirt 5 Years ago.. I was at the bottom of the bottom.

Now I drive a nice car, and im planning to buy a house in 3 or 4 years. which is a HUGE privilege here in germany.
I have a family to feed. I ACCEPT competitors. i dont find them cool, but its ok for me.

BUT i do not accept some as*hole that tries to ruin my business/site/company/whatever just out of pure hate. im going the fastest route to get my money back. the easiest route. the one shot kill route.

thats just my point. and to the ones that are now saying "what if it backfires?"
come on.. that guy is already trying to hurt you. IF he would knew about negative seo, dont you think he would have done it already ?

alright, im out.

fistor said:

If I told them to inspect the muffler, I OBIVOUSLY want them to only check the muffler and not some other crap.(and prolly even charge me extra for that) because that is exactly what i told them to do.

If i told them to "fix the problem - maybe its the muffler??" thats a whole other scenario. as i said, read again.

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Stop playing stupid semantics. You do that with your clients, really? You play word games and assume they're an expert in your field?

We should get together sometime, my kids love playing word games too. You guys would have a blast with this new activity booklet they've got, plus my daughter just got some really cool flash cards that I think you'd love. On one side is the number with pictures, but on the other side is the word.. Like one card says "Five" on one side, and on the other side it says "5" and there's a picture of 5 little fishies. It's a riot and always keeps you guessing. Just be warned that my daughter does not play around with her crayons, if you break one there will be hell to pay from her.

Now the difference between you and most people replying here....

A legitimate auto shop is not just going to take your word for it. You can sit there and insist that the problem is only with your muffler, but guess what? Your car's getting inspected for any problems and in many states, it's illegal for them to let you drive away in a vehicle that's unfit for the road.

A shady auto shop will definitely fix only the muffler, hell, Rod will probably give you a discount if you provide the parts yourself. It'd be a great learning experience for his cousin Tony who's just learning about all this mechanical stuff.

The difference is... With shop A, your muffler most likely is not going to be an issue again. Nor is anything else on your car. With shop B, your muffler is likely to fall off down the road on the way home and the shop will be shut down by the time you get back.

Again with the point I've been attempting to make... I will spell it out now since we have to use flash cards with small words on them... It all depends on what type of business you are. Are you a shady business who will not only take your client's advice (seriously - go take a poll around here and ask some SEO's how many of them have actually done exactly as their clients advised... Your words make me think you've never spoken to a SEO client because they truly have some of the stupidest ideas anybody's ever devised for SEO) or are you a legitimate business who can get the job done and make sure they do not have to worry about this again?

Because like you, they have better things to do than worry about some turd customer posting nonsense on the internet. The offer for a bit of common sense is still on the table, hit me up via PM to make an offer.

xenix9 said:

Finally a sensible post.

+Rep 6

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Look man - I feel for the guy. I think many of us do. But issue is that Neg SEO is just the "phrase de jour". It has no real substance, science or method. It's far from proved that it even works in anything other than the shortest terms.

Only if you are blinkered and will only consider the two worst options "Neg SEO or being shafted"
The main reason not to do neg SEO is becasue it's not even that likely to work.

The choice your making is "Shall I do some negative SEO..or shall I let this guy fuck me behind the bike sheds"
Your not looking at your best options here. The ones that have the most likelyhood of succeeding. It isn't "Neg SEO or nothing"

What will most likely work is rep management.
This is a classic rep management profile.

You don't need to knock this guy down 8 or 9 places. 2 or 3 is fine. In fact just 1 would make a huge impact. One "whateverthefuckyoursellingis brilliant.com" website overtaking his site for second spot and you'll knock the impact of his hate site down 75%

Neg SEO - essp for Offsite links is fucking "scotch mist".
All i've seen for "neg SEO is now an option" is heresay and some circumstantial movements of sites that could be for any number of other reasons.
Seeing sites move up and down (much like they always have) and yelling "AH must be negative SEO".

But... "Correlation does not equal causation"

Don't back the unknown horse because it seems dangerous and new, If you REALLY care about your business and family then do the obvious thing and do rep management - with he added bonus of dominating more of page one for your terms into the bargain.

Neg SEO is yet to be proved, and is only insisted as fact by the foil hat wearing "conspiracy theory" brigade

EDIT

Bloody hell - me and Meatro agreeeing on stuff! I might be tempted to have a look at his VPS's again at this rate

It is not really hard to do, I have over 10 clients that also have me do their reputation management, and many times that is exactly what we have to do create web 2.0 properties, and get good content on them and out rank the negative ones and pushing them to the 2nd page. And for those comments that say it is a waste of time, It is not a waste of time if your client runs a real company and is loosing thousands of dollars over a few silly complaints... And it is not always the company who provided the services fault..

But don't take the job unless you are getting paid well, because rep mgmt is not cheap, should be well over $1,000 to take on the job, But I do not know all the details, But you need to charge according to the impact..

You cannot seriously publicly put yourself out to hire as a neg-seo-gun. Its a shitty idea even if on this occassion Matts Cutts might be your friend. Of course you have no doubt already checked to see if there is any black-looking linkspam in the hate sight backink profile and of course you wouldn't really spam the fuck out of it with xrummer and doorway pages only to then report it to google for using blackhat techniques to gain rankings. That would be immoral.

The thing you have to think about here is this. Why hasn't your client succeeded in placating this person. Has you client actually made a good enough effort to address the concerns of this person who seems to have a gone way off the normal beaten track of a pissed off customer. Does this person have a legitimate concern?

If the keyword is so easy to rank for, just do what has been suggested already. Make more sites and rank them better. Would be far better for you in the long run than becoming a 'known' neg-seo-gun for hire among real clients who will no doubt chat to real friends who will of course chat to theirs.

Yep, exactly...and you would be surprised by how many clients I have who are dealing with this very issue...some idiot puts up a blogger page and refuses to take it down, or worse, someone attacks them personally (ex-wife/gf) on a blog and it ranks for the client's name...just what they want their employer, friends and family to see.

There is a lot of estrogen here when it comes to theory, but if it was you, and your business/family's well-being/mortgage was in jeopardy, the testosterone would kick into high gear.

Discussing with the customer could solve the problem. Or part-refund

ScrapeBoss said:

Discussing with the customer could solve the problem. Or part-refund

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or a baseball bat