Need Final Suggestions On Keyword Scout

clade said:

The rave reviews come from members that got the tool for free forever, I honestly wouldn't blame them. I would've done the same thing.

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@clade - Well I'm one of the guys that gave a good review for Keyword Scout. I'm a little offended that you would imply I might give a positive review just to get a free copy of something.

You're tool may be very good as well (I haven't tried it), but that doesn't change the fact that I really think Macdonjo's Keyword Scout is a pretty useful tool.

The fact is macdonjo gave licenses to the beta testers that helped him by giving feedback and suggestions during its development stage. That's actually a pretty common practice. He never offered or even suggested anyone would get anything free in exchange for positive reviews and none of the beta testers are required to even give a review if they don't want to.

Just to set the record straight;
If I didn't like something I wouldn't leave a good review and I certainly wouldn't recommend it, whether I got anything for free or not.

Greywolf I think we all know that your reputation is beyond repute around here and I doubt anyone would accuse you of being a shill.

However I was not particularly impressed by the way macdonjo completely avoided answering my questions. I already have an Adwords scraper written but it has a few bugs that still require some manual input. It would be much cheaper for me to buy someone's working full auto scraper than to spend the time to fix my current script myself. But it doesn't look like this particular tool is what I'm looking for so thanks to Clade for the info.

GreyWolf said:

@clade - Well I'm one of the guys that gave a good review for Keyword Scout. I'm a little offended that you would imply I might give a positive review just to get a free copy of something.

You're tool may be very good as well (I haven't tried it), but that doesn't change the fact that I really think Macdonjo's Keyword Scout is a pretty useful tool.

The fact is macdonjo gave licenses to the beta testers that helped him by giving feedback and suggestions during its development stage. That's actually a pretty common practice. He never offered or even suggested anyone would get anything free in exchange for positive reviews and none of the beta testers are required to even give a review if they don't want to.

Just to set the record straight;
If I didn't like something I wouldn't leave a good review and I certainly wouldn't recommend it, whether I got anything for free or not.

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Sorry if you took offence, I wasn't talking about you specifically. Your rep is good here.

I just pointed out how he managed to get "raving reviews" within 5 minutes of having the BST thread up when nobody has even purchased it yet.

When asked how the software works by Autumn, he dodged it and pointed to the BST's "raving reviews" instead.

There are also other issues regarding the BST thread that wouldn't warrant his thread getting approved but I'm talking to Wiz, Damien and Greg regarding that. (broke rules #5 and #6).

clade said:

Sorry if you took offence, I wasn't talking about you specifically. Your rep is good here.

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Well I'm glad to hear you weren't talking about me specifically. The other reviews were by meathead1234, hitman247, howard_hughes, Kharis, reinie, kboxer7, GreenGoblin. Which of them might you have been specifically saying they gave a review just to get a free copy of the software? I'm sure they would like a chance to make their own response to such an allegation as well.

I just pointed out how he managed to get "raving reviews" within 5 minutes of having the BST thread up when nobody has even purchased it yet.

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Nothing strange about that at all. Since the tool was made available to some bhw members for beta testing, there were plenty of people qualified to make a review when the software was finally ready for release and the bst thread posted. It isn't at all unusual in a bst thread for a seller to have already given out some review copies. In fact one of the requirements for getting a bst approved is to give at least one review copy to a mod so they can decide if it's worth approving.

When asked how the software works by Autumn, he dodged it and pointed to the BST's "raving reviews" instead.

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I don't know that he actually tried to dodge the question. He did give an answer based on what he apparently thought she was asking. It turns out she had a specific use in mind when asking her question and so the answer didn't actually address what she wanted to know.

There are also other issues regarding the BST thread that wouldn't warrant his thread getting approved but I'm talking to Wiz, Damien and Greg regarding that. (broke rules #5 and #6).

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That may very well be so. #5 is about no forums, and he does have a support forum. A lot of other training products and software products sold in the bst also have support forums. That's because it's about the easiest way to provide support for customers. Since the forum is targeted specifically for software support, it probably isn't as big an issue as if the sales thread was promoting a general topic forum. Whether a support forum is allowed or not is something the mods need to decide on whether such a support forum violates the general ban on forums or not. I don't see a conflict myself, but that's something the mods, admins, and Damien will have to decide.

#6 is about refund policies, as long as he reads his PMs and addresses the issue with anyone requesting one I don't see a problem. The rule does say one needs to be included though so he should probably add one. I think if someone posts a bst thread and that's the only thing missing, I would hope that the mod would just inform the seller they need to add one. Again that's a decision for the mods, admins, and Damien to decide on.

The part that bothers me more though about the first post I replied to you about and then even more so by the one I'm responding now about, is that rather than creating your own thread promoting the benefits of your own software you're accusing other bhw members of giving fake or paid for reviews, and trying to derail macdonjo's bst thread by talking to the mods about technical rule violations.

If you want to be a crusader and report those type of things in general for any products being sold in bst threads then I can respect that, but when you only do it for a competing product then it's a little disingenuous.

In that case it amounts to you simply talking crap because another member is selling a product simply because it competes with one of yours then I have a bit of a problem with it. Especially when any of that talk could be seen as directed at me or any other reputable members giving reviews.

I think it would be more productive for you to work on your own product and promote that one based on it's own merits and benefits. Or if you think it's really important to point out features a competing product is lacking then focus on useful and constructive criticism, not attacking reviewers and making efforts to get a bst thread removed for technical violations.

Greywolf, I did not say you guys gave reviews for a free copy, I said you guys gave reviews after getting a free copy. I merely stated facts.

Fact #1: everybody that gave reviews got a free copy of the software.

Fact #2: I NEVER said the reviews were fake or paid for.

Fact #3: Having a forum is against the BST rules, I emailed the owner of BHW and Greg confirmed this. In fact, BookmarkWiz was denied their BST last year because they had a support forum. This is from the email excerpt:

Your questions "Is it still the rule that sellers are prohibited from having their own forum and should only deal at the BST thread on BHW?" the answer is Yes

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Fact #4: Nowhere on his thread, or on his website did he state a clear refund policy. This is also against the BST rules.
Rule #6 states:

Your thread should include clear contact and refund policies.

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I'm not here to judge or decide what is "unusual", I let the customers do that themselves, but they need to know the facts and not get sucked in by the hype. That's all.

clade said:

Greywolf, I did not say you guys gave reviews for a free copy, I said you guys gave reviews after getting a free copy. I merely stated facts.

Fact #1: everybody that gave reviews got a free copy of the software.

Fact #2: I NEVER said the reviews were fake or paid for.

Fact #3: Having a forum is against the BST rules, I emailed the owner of BHW. In fact, BookmarkWiz was denied their BST last year because they had a support forum.

Fact #4: Nowhere on his thread, or on his website did he state a clear refund policy. This is also against the BST rules.

I'm not here to judge or decide what is "unusual", I let the customers do that themselves, but they need to know the facts and not get sucked in by the hype. That's all.

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Well you might not have actually stated your Fact 2 directly, but the way in which you pointed out Fact 1 definitely implied that the reviews were not to be trusted.

Regarding Fact 3, you're right some bst threads have been denied for that reason, yet there are still other bst products that do have support forums that haven't been denied. As I said I think the mods have a bit of discretion in that matter.

Regarding Fact 4, you're right that he should have a return policy clearly stated. I think if he edits the thread to add one it should be sufficient. That's really an issue for the mods to decide though.

While it may be true that his bst thread violates a couple of technical rules. He might even need to correct those violations. But it seems that the main reason you have a problem with it is that the tool competes with yours.

I've never had an issue with you before, I've even mentioned in another thread (even though I've never tried yours before) that I wasn't promoting macdonjo's product as better or worse than yours and pointed out that yours is also a solution for keyword research. I haven't actually tried yours so I can't say if yours is better than his or not. Either way the Keyword Scout is still a good tool though. It's a good tool that works. Is there others that work too? Of course there is. Is you're tool better? I don't know I haven't tried it. I'm sure that you have plenty of other people that have though. There's room in the market for more than one tool for keyword research. I don't see that there's really a lot of hype over it, or at least no more than for any other tool.

While I accept that you may not have meant to offend anyone, you're comments in this thread have crossed a line. Talk to the mods regarding the rules issues if you want, but rather than continue hijacking macdonjo's thread you should drop it in this thread.

Clade, I notice you have an infraction - strictly speaking, that means you are not allowed a BST, dont throw rocks in glasshouses.

Mac I suggest you write up a quick refund policy, and PM the staff with it to get it added to your thread, this IS required.

On the issue of a support forum, this is taken on a case by case basis - if the forum offers ANYTHING other than direct product support its not acceptable. If the forum in anyway competes, detracts, or diverts from BHW, its not allowed. If the product is better supported and the user experience enhanced by the presense of a forum as a support tool then in some cases like this one, the reviewing mod(s) may decide to allow it.

Clade you presenting yourself as an impartial viewer who is eager to 'protect users from the hype', its clear to me and I hope others that you have at least a partially competing product. I strongly suggest that you avoid 'negative campaigning' and making accusations against other staff and/or exec VIPs in the future.

This isnt open for debate, please do not write up a long reply in green text to further labor your points. If you have purchased this software, you may leave a fair and balanced review stating in advance your association with a competing product. If not tread VERY carefully.

zen19 said:

Clade you presenting yourself as an impartial viewer who is eager to 'protect users from the hype', its clear to me and I hope others that you have at least a partially competing product. I strongly suggest that you avoid 'negative campaigning' and making accusations against other staff and/or exec VIPs in the future.

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zen19, I do own a copy of Keyword Scout. My review of the software has been useful to at least one other member (Autumn) and IMHO, should hold more value since I actually paid for the software. Their forum has a General section where members can talk about SEO http://keywordscout.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1.

I do however understand that mods have more important things to do than moderating forum drama's so I'll comply and stop now.

Cheers.

clade said:

zen19, I do own a copy of Keyword Scout. My review of the software has been useful to at least one other member (Autumn) and IMHO, should hold more value since I actually paid for the software.

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That would be cool except that your review went outside the scope of a review when you implied that the other reviews couldn't be trusted.

Their forum has a General section where members can talk about SEO here.

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Well even in that particular off-topic section, the only threads in there are still all related to the Keyword Scout program. I think Zen actually addressed the forum issue in his last reply when he told you the mods make that determination on case by case basis. I don't see why you still feel a need to address that issue yourself.

I do however understand that mods have more important things to do than moderating forum drama's so I'll comply and stop now.

Cheers.

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I think you missed zens point. You went right ahead and made one more post discussing some things he told you specifically not to bring up again. I imagine he was expecting you to actually comply before making that last post. I doubt he was considering it would be ok for you to make one last jab at driving your point home, and then declaring you'll comply now. I guess we'll see what he actually thinks about it when he logs in again.

I don't usually leave neg reps and even though I considered your comment about the reviewers offensive I was going to let it go regarding your rep. Since you're determined to belabor the point after being asked not to, I'm giving you -rep now even though I really don't like doing so. You have enough rep it's probably not a big deal to you, but you really got my feathers ruffled up in this thread.

I hope your attitude in this thread is just an isolated incident. You usually seem pretty cool in most threads I've seen you posting in.

I think Zen summed it all up here.

Regarding my personal review:I talked to mac on skype and were present during some of the development and he was open to suggestions and tweaking the software untill it had everything the users wanted, this is one thing that in fact satisfied me. how else were he to get suggestions and improve the software without offering free tests?

btw, I think it is in bad taste to post on a thread of this nature about a competitor. Just my two cents

Autumn said:

Greywolf I think we all know that your reputation is beyond repute around here and I doubt anyone would accuse you of being a shill.

However I was not particularly impressed by the way macdonjo completely avoided answering my questions. I already have an Adwords scraper written but it has a few bugs that still require some manual input. It would be much cheaper for me to buy someone's working full auto scraper than to spend the time to fix my current script myself. But it doesn't look like this particular tool is what I'm looking for so thanks to Clade for the info.

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Please email me. clade apparently is the new OP of this thread and wouldn't want to hijack it. [email protected]. Just copy this to the email. Thanks.

need the abilitiy to check the total searches, competition, and cpc value for a long list of keywords all at once without doing it one keyword by another.

macdonjo3 said:

I am looking for some final suggestions for my desktop-based keyword tool Keyword Scout. We are almost ready to launch, but if anyone has any last minute suggestions, we can include them.

We have EMD checkers, competition analyzers, profit potential, proxy scraping, keyword brainstorming, 1-click updates and more.

Let me know if you have any more suggestions and we will include them and we will be launching very soon after that.

Thanks

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I'm not going to comment on the whole competing software situation, but I am one of the ones who gave a positive review and this was only after I was given the opportunity to test the software, the review was not a condition of becoming a beta tester and i wouldn't apply to test something if that was the case.

I think mac has done a great job so I would suggest that any further comments re problems or bugs are just that and not snide comments attacking somebody's hard work (even though that may have not been your intention it can be hard to read emotion into text sometimes)

@ Clade - as you can imagine, being an Exec VIP, I get asked to review products and services all of the time. My spare time is very limited (I consider a review the use of my spare time) so I don't choose to review every product and service I get offered.

In this case, I thought it was a useful product, so opted to leave a positive review. The fact I didn't pay for it is largely irrelevant. If you have an issue with me getting it free, I will happily pay the asking price of the software to avoid any potential complaints about myself being biased.

There are many products and services that I have tested and not found to be that great - in that case, I certainly don't leave a "rave" review. In my position of relative "power" and respect on the forum leaving "rave" reviews for a product that sucks really isn't in my best interests. I wouldn't want to be in the position where someone has spent their hard earned cash on something I have recommended only to be disappointed.

As GreyWolf also said, I could let that part fly. I get that free reviews can be considered biased. What I do have an issue with is you thread-jacking Macdonjo's BST and feedback thread with what seems (from the outside at least) to be negative comments that would not normally be mentioned unless you had a competing product. There's more than enough room in the keyword research niche for more than one vendor, so I would have thought it would have been better to leave a nice message congratulating Macdonjo on his product and wishing him luck with sales. It takes a lot to do that - but we're all on the same side here and I feel it would have worked more in your favour.

I also rarely ever leave neg rep for anyone, but in this case I feel it was justified. It's nothing personal, I just feel you over-stepped the mark with the implications and blatant attempt at damaging a competing product's sales. I wish you luck with your own product launch and I hope that you don't have to deal with a similar "attack" on your own thread from a competitor. I've made a lot more money this year working with my competitors than I have against them. The internet is a HUGE market, there is plenty of room for multiple sellers in a niche.

Dude for your kind information the tool was given to Jr. Vips for beta testing the software.

My part was to test his payment system.

ONLY BETA TESTING.

There was no such thing as "get the software free for a good review". IF YOU CAN PROVE THAT, I'll QUIT BHW FOREVER

I gave a review because I tested the product and the review was limited only to the product. If Mods or Anyone can find even a single PM or other proof that this review was incentivized then i'll do whatever you say.

There are tons and software in the market and its just not possible to compare every one, as the time is limited.

You might have done that but I've never done this and I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT A RESPECTED MEMBER SUCH AS GREY WOLF WOULD DO THAT.

@MAC - Good Luck With Your Sales.

clade said:

They do have a browser in the back-end and they can only scrape maximum 50 keywords at a time, similar to Brad Callen's Niche Finder, only Brad Callen's tool is cheaper, $48.50 one time payment.

You also need to give the s/w an Adwords account and it cannot work without one. I tried inputting my Adwords account but it wouldn't log-in and says invalid, despite the fact that the same Adwords account worked with Brad Callen's tool.

The proxy scraper is unnecessary, you only need it to query allintitle, allinurl, "keyword" which are redundant to begin with. Real competition is the Top 10 guy. and Real SEO look at the Domain and Page Authority, Off-page and on-page SEO effort.

Actually, scratch that, real competition is the Top 3 guys. You hardly get any traffic ranking lower than that.

As far as speed goes, this s/w is actually slower than Market Samurai when it comes to Top 10 analysis, not sure what justifies their price.

The rave reviews come from members that got the tool for free forever, I honestly wouldn't blame them. I would've done the same thing. Good luck with your choice Autumn.

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Sorry for jumping in late....BHW has been down for me on and off.

Anyway, I gave a good review because of 2 very simple things:

1. This tool handled multiple aspects of the keyword research process that I employ...which otherwise I would need to flip between 3 diff systems/tools to accomplish the same thing.

2. The support and cust. service. I was involved all through development and the OP constantly sought feedback from all involved.

You know what else he did???? If we asked for a feature...I'll be damned if he had not ACTUALLY LISTENED and made it for us within a couple days.

In fact, if you browse through his support forum you will see the history of
a. User feedback

and b. Developer involvment and implimentation.