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Major hole in "SEO" hosting - Any thoughts?

Discussion in 'Web Hosting' started by BlackHatSoda, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. BlackHatSoda

    BlackHatSoda Junior Member

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    I'm getting fed up with running my sites on close to 10 different hosts to get proper diversification of IPs, DNS, etc.

    I'm looking at using a multi C class IP host (SEO host) and have researched all the top options.

    But I've found a big issue with all the hosts I've researched and contacted...

    The IPs they use are registered to just one or a few company names. This means that if you do a WHOIS on the IPs they provide, they'll all show them as being registered to the same or one of a few companies.

    To me that completely defeats the purpose of this type of service. Why go through the hassle of using different class C, B or even A IPs and have custom nameservers on separate IPs if all someone has to do is a WHOIS and see that all your sites are related?

    I find it impossible to believe that Google does not currently or won't in the near future take IP registration info into account when detecting link spam or when determining the value of a link between two sites. It's simply too easy for them to do and this is a very powerful way to see through the whole SEO host thing.

    So, does anyone know of a host offering:

    Multiple class C IPs
    Custom nameservers hosted on multiple class C IPs
    IPs with WHOIS info that is spread across at least 10 different company names?

    I realize that the logistics for a web host to register blocks of IPs in many different company names is a pain in the ass but that's what you're paying for right? I mean, if not, you've got a huge footprint that defeats the purpose of the service.
     
  2. nufaman

    nufaman Elite Member

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    I used to follow the different IPs myth... and ended up wasting quite a big chunk of cash for nothing. Nowadays I have close to 100 sites on a vps and most of them have top rankings and nice earnings.
     
  3. BlackHatSoda

    BlackHatSoda Junior Member

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    I agree that unique IPs are not necessary to get top rankings, however, the value of separate IPs depends on what you are doing...

    If you want to have the ability to heavily cross link a large number of your sites then hiding the fact that they are all owned by the same person is important.

    If you don't want your competition or some jerk who might want to make trouble for you to easily find all your sites, having them on different IPs is a must.

    So it's not a myth, it's just a case of providing benefit in particular cases.
     
  4. nufaman

    nufaman Elite Member

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    Google knows whatever they want to know. They have their own registar, plus who knows what other ways of tracking you. Trying to hide is a waste of time.
     
  5. wallofiron

    wallofiron Power Member

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    seo-host.com has all their domain IPs hidden domain by proxy imo
     
  6. Josh.w36

    Josh.w36 Regular Member

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    I can provide you with what you want! PM me!
     
  7. Markbh

    Markbh Regular Member

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    I agree with BlackhatSoda. You can not be to paranoid if you've invested heavily into linking. Like nufaman mentioned, Google is now a registrar. Many people consider that the main reason for this was to gain the ability to access user information behind domain names. Private/Shielded registration is now transparent to them, so varying registration info becomes more important than ever before.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  8. Markbh

    Markbh Regular Member

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    Most SEO hosts simply give you a range of IP addresses (Class C) so you can vary the perceived hosting location of your sites to give the impression of random owners... The problem, however, is your DNS is likely to be the same for all those different Class C IP addresses and so it is not difficult at all for a search engine to map one's entire network.

    There is the possibility to get a different DNS with each Class C, and even more - a different RDNS (Reverse DNS) too! It's not very common knowledge and therefore may be one of the most overlooked aspects of SEO hosting. RDNS is pretty simple. If you ping an IP you will see that a domain name will also appear. That's it. So how does that matter?

    If sites displaying IPs from different C class, report back having the same domain through RDNS - it's similar to shouting "Hey, we're on the same server, our linking is internal." Consider the effect of that on your back link value! It may be overlooked by the masses, but again, if you build something, you expect it to last. Even if it's just for flipping.

    For the Big G running a million pings and connecting the dots is as easy as for someone to pick his nose. The guys that took good care of this aspect were at seohostgator. Look it up.
     
  9. BlackHatSoda

    BlackHatSoda Junior Member

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    DNS/RDNS isn't the real issue though. Yes, it's certainly a base to be covered but there are quite a few SEO hosts that offer DNS servers across blocks of class C IPs.

    The issue that I found was that none of the SEO hosts I found were registering their IPs under enough different names. Doing a WHOIS on an IP is trivial and having C, B or A class IPs and your DNS/RDNS across different C, B or A blocks isn't going to do much good when it's clear all your IPs are registered to the same company.

    As for not being able to hide from Google because they can know everything they want to, I have to disagree. It's quite easy to hide things from Google if you take logical steps to do so. What they can gather about you is quite limited unless you are willingly giving information to them by using their services.
     
  10. BlackHatSoda

    BlackHatSoda Junior Member

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    What do you mean their IPs are hidden?
     
  11. MrRat

    MrRat Registered Member

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    hmm..hard problem mate. not sure how to solve it the correct way, but this thread is worth a bookmark. thanks for the post. i will follow it.. ;)
     
  12. Fwiffo

    Fwiffo Power Member

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    other hole:

    do you have different nameservers when setting up? or are you just using one for your whole project? and are those nameservers under a subomdain of a "common url" across SEO hosting?

    as for SEO hosting, I personally stay clear of it.

    "if I was google" I'd just buy about 50-100 accounts under different names there, and see what IP blocks and hosting names it gets registered under. After doing that, I'd probably be aware of about 80-90% of their IP blocks and registered hosting names.

    I wouldn't put it past them, and I think that it's pretty easy for them to say that anyone hosting through a company called "seo hosting" is pretty much focused on the one thing google hates, therefore worth a downgrade.

    I personally just try to get as many different hosting accounts as I can across different providers. More expensive, yes, but if I'm trying to avoid leaving a clear footprint, really the only way I'm aware of at the moment.
     
  13. blackhataffiliate

    blackhataffiliate Senior Member

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    I do have a vps, but I also take advantage of the black friday hosting deals every year. You can get hostgator baby for .99 for 1 year, downtown host $30 for 1 yr, etc.
     
  14. Bross

    Bross Senior Member

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    That's the big hole you found?

    Company name? oh gee. you'd think google even care about this.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. SuperBlackHat

    SuperBlackHat Power Member

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    will be paying attention to this thread
     
  16. qwidjib0

    qwidjib0 Newbie

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    Personally, I've always believed Matt Cutts when he stated to NANOG that there was a benefit to dedicated IP's in any way (in his blog post "Myth busting: virtual hosts vs. dedicated IP addresses"). Not to say that every claim that people from Google have made about how they operate have been true (ie. the claim that meta keywords have no bearing at all anymore, which has been made, could be proven false by including a garbage word in a keywords tag).

    SEO tends to get left up to a lot of theory though, so by all means come to your own conclusions. If nothing else, I would agree - it's tough to fool the Googlebot, especially on something that leaves as much of a trail behind as domain ownership.
     
  17. wallofiron

    wallofiron Power Member

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    sorry I meant that their domains are all protected by domains by proxy and you cannot tell if they are registered to the same company or owner.
     
  18. BlackHatSoda

    BlackHatSoda Junior Member

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    Why wouldn't they?

    Google dedicates considerable resources to combating web spam right? So called SEO hosts serve only once purpose, to try and hide the fact that multiple sites are owned/controlled by the same person. The primary reason to do this is to cross link your sites and gain full value from those backlinks.

    Obviously Google doesn't like this sort of thing so why wouldn't they use information that is easy to obtain which makes the whole multi class C IP tactic useless?

    Google looks for and takes into account the relationship between two linked pages. They recently filed patents for determining if two linked sites were owned by the same person and listed IP as one factor. I'm sure they also use domain registration info so why wouldn't they use IP registration info?
     
  19. BlackHatSoda

    BlackHatSoda Junior Member

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    I see what you mean. But using a domain registration proxy only hides domain ownership, not IP registration info.
     
  20. wallofiron

    wallofiron Power Member

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    where are you finding IP registration info?


    thanks