@Jazzc
I don't understand what you're saying here tbh.
I'm saying PSI isn't recognized in any way, yet a scientist's intent or wish could influence an experiment. That's why we have double blind tests - to protect for the situation where somebody involved would affect the results just through his wish or thoughts.
Well, there you go, placebo effect, don't see what's magical about it...
There's nothing magical about PSI, telepathy or RV or whatever either. They're magical because some people use that term as they don't understand much about them. The paranormal is paranormal only until it gets explained, then it becomes normal. And my point about placebo was it is only an observed thing; not understood though. Also my point was, it is not a repeatable event. You can't accurately reproduce placebo. Same goes for the "paranormal" to a certain extent.
Who cares how many? As I said, don't confuse practitioners with practice.
I'm not religious, but one of the arguments against religion is what some priests did throughout history.Science is also made up of people. And the way those people "move" will give a direction to science.
The above paragraph covers this one too. Yes, human flight was in the realm of religion before being proven (not necessarily experimentally). Just like PSI is. Prove it in a scientific way and it goes from the religion realm to the scientific realm.
That's a really weird way of looking at things. I think something either is or is not. It does not become real because of religion or because of science. Both religion and science are human inventions. The universe does not exist because a scientist or a priest say it exists. The universe just exists. The priest will have a given meaning why and how the universe exists, same will a scientist. The existence of the universe does not rely on any of them.
Yes, almost. I think a better definition is that the realm of science is whatever can be proved by the scientific method.
And a lot of the stuff accepted in science has never been proven. Is just assumed. Yet is still called "scientific".
SM = Scientific Method
Telepathic (more correctly said, non physical influence) has been measured, experiments have been done, etc. All following the SM.
You're just assuming here and you know it. How hard do you think it is to make a robust telepathy test? It's not like we'd design a spacecraft for Mars...
Actually it can be extremely difficult depending on the results you demand. That's my whole point. Like I said to Trepanated, there's one thing to do a study with dogs and another with turtles. For example from Sheldrake's experiments he gets more results with dogs than cats. This doesn't mean the cats are less telepathic, as Sheldrake puts it, they could be just less interested.
@Trepanated
But that points towards a rational explanation, not a supernatural one.
Well, yeah. That's my whole point. Problem science and some people have with the paranormal sits in language and interpretation not in substance. That's specifically because scientist prefer to hug the "spirits/paranormal/telepathy/psi doesn't exist" instead of rephrasing it in their own language in a form they're comfortable with and makes sense. On the other side people who study/practice spirituality sometimes make the same mistake and think science is bad/wrong. People who study spiritual or energy stuff have a certain vocabulary. Scientists have a different vocabulary. When they start to talk together, because of the difference in their vocabulary they end up fighting and not having a discussion. I think bout when you talk to a "believer" as you call them as well as when you talk to a scientist, you need to talk to them like with children - accept everything they say and use words they can understand.
If i'm having a discussion with a science oriented person I will use a certain vocabulary. If I do it with a priest I might have a different vocabulary. If I do it with an energy worker another vocabulary. And if I do it with a shrink, yet another vocabulary.
So to summarize. I don't think there's anything paranormal really. That's just a curtain word. What people call paranormal/magic/etc. is perfectly normal, just not necessarily common. And BTW, the way both of you (jazzc and Trepanated) view the idea of energy/spirits/psi/etc. is very superficial. I'm not saying you're superficial because I know you're not. But this is the result of not actually caring enough about this to actually learn or at least read about it. So you end up thinking a believer is some moron and an energy worker (super crappy name btw) is either delusional or a scammer (which in many cases it is). But you extend this and think this is the only case.
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