Lazy SEO Customer

Seiran

Seiran

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I've been dealing with quite an oddball of a customer and I could use some advice. I'm a web dev that also happens to do SEO.

They want to do "honest white hat SEO", but they are too lazy to put in the effort to go out, entertain decent relations with other organizations, put out original content for guest blogging. In fact, one of the prospects I pitched to them received a duplicate version of content already existing on the customer's website; that's how lazy they are, they think other websites will publish their unoriginal duplicate content.

I've been told to stop doing "black hat". They don't want to dwell in "evil black hat SEO" because one of their old competitors effectively got themselves de-indexed from Google by relying on retarded tactics like spamming a mass amount of backlinks to Russian sites. My efforts prior to that were successful in increasing ranking in multiple keywords. Going in the back won't solve the issue as they have access to backlink metrics.

Meanwhile the rest of their competition has no issues using various tactics, whether it is what seems to be PBNs, owning multiple websites having high authority linking back to their money site, or scraping out domains from which they can obtain links from.

This customer now seems to be convinced that they'll "now rank on Google more" simply by changing meta tags, by erratically changing frontpage links every odd week, or implying my code is the problem because they're "honest people" or read a blog post by Matt Cutts. They seem to have forgotten that they hired someone to do web dev for them and think they are experts in the area, which has led to many arguments which were closed by "We are paying, you do what we told you to do".

Is there anything I should do in particular with this customer or should I just drop them dead? I've considered the latter along with taking all the backlinks I've produced to hoodwink their business.
 
Last edited:
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Of course it would be good if you could do it the right way and be succesful with the project bus as long as they pay you on time and intend to keep you as their SEO guy/web dev, then who really cares. If they don't intend to listen to the expert they hired they're not the smartest people. Just stick with it, you'll be happy with your money and they'll be somewhat happy because they think they're doing the right thing.
 
Juoppi said:
Of course it would be good if you could do it the right way and be succesful with the project bus as long as they pay you on time and intend to keep you as their SEO guy/web dev, then who really cares. If they don't intend to listen to the expert they hired they're not the smartest people. Just stick with it, you'll be happy with your money and they'll be somewhat happy because they think they're doing the right thing.
Click to expand...

Problem is, I don't think this will pan out on the long term, because their competitors will forge ahead while they stagnate. And if this were about the money, I wouldn't have taken this client because I could be paid more somewhere else.

They are too incompetent to do it the "right way", and arguing with them is a waste of time as they seem to think they're the experts. I have already explained to them that doing it the "right way" takes resources, but they seem convinced that the problem is the code, which it isn't. The entire reason why these "black hat" links were being done in the first place is because the "right way" doesn't work.
 
Well if thats the case and they don't even listen to you then maybe they'll listen to someone else. Have you tried to show them some articles or whatever about link building. Maybe they'll believe someone who's more of an "expert". They have to be total idiots if they don't understand that link-building won't get you deindexed unless you do it like a retard.
 
If they aren't making you much money why bother with them? Bad clients are WORSE than no client. He might make you 1/6th your money but take 3/4 your time.


Seiran said:
I've been dealing with quite an oddball of a customer and I could use some advice. I'm a web dev that also happens to do SEO.

They want to do "honest white hat SEO", but they are too lazy to put in the effort to go out, entertain decent relations with other organizations, put out original content for guest blogging. In fact, one of the prospects I pitched to them received a duplicate version of content already existing on the customer's website; that's how lazy they are, they think other websites will publish their unoriginal duplicate content.

I've been told to stop doing "black hat". They don't want to dwell in "evil black hat SEO" because one of their old competitors effectively got themselves de-indexed from Google by relying on retarded tactics like spamming a mass amount of backlinks to Russian sites. My efforts prior to that were successful in increasing ranking in multiple keywords. Going in the back won't solve the issue as they have access to backlink metrics.

Meanwhile the rest of their competition has no issues using various tactics, whether it is what seems to be PBNs, owning multiple websites having high authority linking back to their money site, or scraping out domains from which they can obtain links from.

This customer now seems to be convinced that they'll "now rank on Google more" simply by changing meta tags, by erratically changing frontpage links every odd week, or implying my code is the problem because they're "honest people" or read a blog post by Matt Cutts. They seem to have forgotten that they hired someone to do web dev for them and think they are experts in the area, which has led to many arguments which were closed by "We are paying, you do what we told you to do".

Is there anything I should do in particular with this customer or should I just drop them dead? I've considered the latter along with taking all the backlinks I've produced to hoodwink their business.
Click to expand...
 
Just do what they want you do to and take their money. Don't invest too much time and effort. Who cares if they are happy with the results? You just do what you are told and know that it won't work.
Go find some new clients in the meantime so you can compensate the loss as soon as they drop you.
 
Juoppi said:
Well if thats the case and they don't even listen to you then maybe they'll listen to someone else. Have you tried to show them some articles or whatever about link building. Maybe they'll believe someone who's more of an "expert". They have to be total idiots if they don't understand that link-building won't get you deindexed unless you do it like a retard.
Click to expand...

I've tried to explain that, show articles, but they'll selectively choose which articles they want to listen to. It is a scorched earth situation where they believe that any link building risks getting them de-indexed because some guy they talked to got de-indexed by acting like a total doofus. One of the members of their company thinks they're an expert because they read SEO blog posts off of Google Search. Perhaps I should read blog posts off of Google Search on how to run a company, I'd be an expert in that!

ThopHayt said:
If they aren't making you much money why bother with them? Bad clients are WORSE than no client. He might make you 1/6th your money but take 3/4 your time.
Click to expand...

The reason I'm working with them to begin with is that I'm freelance and there is a drought of decent contracts, mostly due to people either lowballing or outsourcing to India through places like freelancer dot com. It's either that or working a 9 to 5 development gig which is always dreadful. I've been thinking of building a domain in this client's niche and competing with them.
 
Seiran said:
Problem is, I don't think this will pan out on the long term, because their competitors will forge ahead while they stagnate. And if this were about the money, I wouldn't have taken this client because I could be paid more somewhere else.

They are too incompetent to do it the "right way", and arguing with them is a waste of time as they seem to think they're the experts. I have already explained to them that doing it the "right way" takes resources, but they seem convinced that the problem is the code, which it isn't. The entire reason why these "black hat" links were being done in the first place is because the "right way" doesn't work.
Click to expand...

If they think they're the experts, let them do their own damn work. Seriously, OP, this is why I screen my clients. If you think you can do it better than me, then why did you hire me in the first place? Do it yourself, and save hundreds of dollars a month (or whatever you're charging them) in the process.

Send them a polite message telling them you aren't a good fit for each other, and get the hell out of there.

I've been in desperate situations like this before. Wanting to compete in the content writing marketplace made me charge less than what my work was worth. It stressed me out immensely. I let all that go, started charging more, and started working with people I knew would appreciate the quality of my work.

Pro tip: People who pay more are not nearly as picky as cheapskates.

Right now, I'm in the process of adding case studies and sales pages to my skills. Companies pay thousands of dollars to have case studies written up. I love it. I'm working on my first sales page project right now. If I hadn't have quit working for cheap assholes, I'd still be stuck working my ass off for peanuts.

Tell yourself you're better than that. Hell, working the 9-5 may be dreadful, but at least you're getting paid. You may have to do that until you build up a list of clients that aren't going to make you feel like you should stick a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger.
 
i personally think you should drop them , if you don't rely soley on the income from this clients and you think that what they are asking cannot be accomplished save your self the headache, they are not going to like the final result anyway... focus on getting new clients instead.
 
If a client is behaving like that I'd recommend cutting them off and burning the bridge. Just take all those "evil blackhat" links and give them to a client that will appreciate them (assuming it's viable in your contract to do so).
 
Seiran said:
The reason I'm working with them to begin with is that I'm freelance and there is a drought of decent contracts, mostly due to people either lowballing or outsourcing to India through places like freelancer dot com. It's either that or working a 9 to 5 development gig which is always dreadful. I've been thinking of building a domain in this client's niche and competing with them.
Click to expand...

That would be great revenge! Compete with them and out rank them with those 'blackhat methods' to show them their errors. Who knows maybe you could even sell them the site for $$$ or just keep it and steal their traffic so they will always remember the pain!
: )
 
Seiran said:
I've been dealing with quite an oddball of a customer and I could use some advice. I'm a web dev that also happens to do SEO.

They want to do "honest white hat SEO", but they are too lazy to put in the effort to go out, entertain decent relations with other organizations, put out original content for guest blogging. In fact, one of the prospects I pitched to them received a duplicate version of content already existing on the customer's website; that's how lazy they are, they think other websites will publish their unoriginal duplicate content.

I've been told to stop doing "black hat". They don't want to dwell in "evil black hat SEO" because one of their old competitors effectively got themselves de-indexed from Google by relying on retarded tactics like spamming a mass amount of backlinks to Russian sites. My efforts prior to that were successful in increasing ranking in multiple keywords. Going in the back won't solve the issue as they have access to backlink metrics.

Meanwhile the rest of their competition has no issues using various tactics, whether it is what seems to be PBNs, owning multiple websites having high authority linking back to their money site, or scraping out domains from which they can obtain links from.

This customer now seems to be convinced that they'll "now rank on Google more" simply by changing meta tags, by erratically changing frontpage links every odd week, or implying my code is the problem because they're "honest people" or read a blog post by Matt Cutts. They seem to have forgotten that they hired someone to do web dev for them and think they are experts in the area, which has led to many arguments which were closed by "We are paying, you do what we told you to do".

Is there anything I should do in particular with this customer or should I just drop them dead? I've considered the latter along with taking all the backlinks I've produced to hoodwink their business.
Click to expand...
You asked for advice and everyone here including myself is telling you to ditch the customer but you're not listening just like the customer.
 
No need for silly revenge actions or trying to compete with them, it's business, not the kindergarden, cancel their contract and move on. People must learn from their own experience and while it's fine trying to educate them, you can't force them to share your opinion, no matter how much proof you present.
 
I'd drop them too brother, you won't always get along with everybody but you'll always gain some experience from it, take away from this that they're exactly the type of people you want nothing to do with.
 
Client that will appreciate them (assuming it's viable in your contract to do so.
 
I think i'm missing something. Have you told them that the results they want are unobtainable in the way they want it doing? If so, why are you still dealing with them?
 
Op listen to what people have told here.

Think about it? If someone pretends to know SEO why then are they hiring you. The only people who know SEO who should hire you are those who know their process and ony need you to help them finish the work. ie outsourcing redundant work.

Otherwise, if a fellow tells you that you are doing SEO wrong, then please dump them.

I can't tell you the number of emails I get in a day asking for SEO services. I screen in my emails. If you are already telling me that you just need links, then you aren't for me. If you are already asking for pricing, then you aren't my client.

It's not boasting or anything. You would rather have a client who values your time and allows you to work your magic than the one who thinks he's hired you exclusively.

Don't undersell yourself. If you aren't happy in a relationship, please leave. Otherwise you are just like an abused spouse in a relationship and that is not fun my friend, it isn't.
 
Drop them as in the would get difficult to manage especially if you would have to explain why they haven't seen results after a while
 
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