Just talking... how about if i decide to develop an adsense click tool?

so then again, tell me any of the programs sold in bhw not stealing money? link building softwares steal money from search engine, social bots steal money from social networks, ad spying steal money from advertisers.

any form of a software doing things on behalf of a human, translates to botting, and botting translate to stealing (i wouldn't be so much as like to use this word, but you guys were throwing it out there so i might as well).

sure, they do not directly /steal/ YOUR money, but they are indirectly affecting you, whether you are advertiser or publisher. you might as well complain to all the threads that sells bots and cry "i spent so much money advertising, and this guy just created a fb ad spying tool and stole my money". well basically, just one word, /hypocrites/ .. inb4, if you guys bashing are actually doing things manually, by hand, you deserve a medal. good for you.

btw, there's a thread called "english jingling bot" somewhere down this sub thread. why don't you start there? "OP shame on you, you should not be posting this bot here" you know, auto visiting bots will hit on CPM. I guess you will say "that's CPM, i don't care sh*t about CPM i only do CPC". Okay. Well.

waitier said:

so then again, tell me any of the programs sold in bhw not stealing money? link building softwares steal money from search engine, social bots steal money from social networks, ad spying steal money from advertisers.

any form of a software doing things on behalf of a human, translates to botting, and botting translate to stealing (i wouldn't be so much as like to use this word, but you guys were throwing it out there so i might as well)..

Click to expand...

With this bot, you directly grab money out of Advertisers pockets. This could be a local businesses which is highly depended on getting customers on a good ROI to continue their business.
This is called stealing.

Link building software on the other hand is cheating an algorithm. You cheat your way to the top. Social bot's are also cheating if we're talking i.e. Pinterest bots. Heck, Pinterest didn't even themselves made any money for a long-time. No one really looses any money here. People who would visit your website after they see your pin or profile, they chose to do so! Big difference.

Even if, morally this is also a whole other thing. If Google makes at top 0,1 less revenue because of cheaters, who cares that much?
But if many small businesses have to drop AdWords because they don't get new customers on a profit, that's another caliber.

Just my thoughts.

For Google not to catch you, you would need practically 1 unique IP per click, which means an insane amount of proxies. If you get shared proxies, chances are those proxies have been used already to do something shitty, and are already on google's bad IP list. If you use "exclusive" proxies, chances are that address space was previously used to do something crappy by a previous renter of said proxies. The only way we've been able to game the big sites (yahoo, google) is to make our own clean IPs by setting up a bank of 10 cable modems, attaching a small linux machine to each to function as a gateway, and write a script that recycles the cable modems every 120 seconds to pull a new IP. But this wouldn't work for you either, since the IPs would seem to all originate from the cable modem provider or whatever. There is no such thing as truly clean proxies

That won't work even with unique IPs. Google gathers pretty much info about every user (e.g. search history, ads history etc), so it could see that the user has no activity record. I think you can realize it will get very suspicious for you getting most volume of clicks from such users.
And, while it is relatively easy to fake an IP by using proxies, I to be honest see no way of producing genuine fake activity.
That could work if you pool around 5% bot clicks and other 95% are real ones, but it won't make any considerable amount with low volume of clicks and, if the number of real clicks is high, no one should risk it for small addition.

So you're a developer but don't know that a simple reverse look up on your proxies will show that.....well a proxy is a ip that belong to a hosting company
Do you think Google isn't aware of those ips?
What % of real users use an ip from hosting company to browse the web.....very very few.....
GL anyway....

mirrorer said:

So you're a developer but don't know that a simple reverse look up on your proxies will show that.....well a proxy is a ip that belong to a hosting company
Do you think Google isn't aware of those ips?
What % of real users use an ip from hosting company to browse the web.....very very few.....
GL anyway....

Click to expand...

Actually there are private proxies that do not belong to hosting companies, but these services are... Well, shady, I'd say.

Morals aside, I don't think it is possible (At least not easily done) to do this without getting caught. Don't waste your time, risk your name or spend your money on this.

Rather develop a different tool without such risks.

albaniax said:

This is called stealing.

Link building software on the other hand is cheating an algorithm. You cheat your way to the top.

Even if, morally this is also a whole other thing.

Click to expand...

That's just twisting words. =D its a very blur line cheating and stealing. you cheat but you don't steal; you steal but you don't cheat. but in the end of the day, is there any diff? it's still money in your pocket from someone else, well in this case, both are /morally wrong/.

this discussion will go nowhere. you either admit it or keep deceiving yourselves. (the 'you' isn't referring to you but whoever they think is themselves) =D

reinie said:

Morals aside, I don't think it is possible (At least not easily done) to do this without getting caught. Don't waste your time, risk your name or spend your money on this.

Rather develop a different tool without such risks.

Click to expand...

well not sure but there are people out there
that use some kind of script that generates clicks and he gets paid.

he let's it run after he invites a lot of people via FB.
Not sure what kind of script it is all I know is he mentioned "clickJacking"

I searched for it but gave up ... not finding anywhere.

Guess this is similar to this one too

There are plenty tools and even ad clicking groups out there, but it never lasts more than a few days or weeks before accounts get banned.

waitier said:

That's just twisting words. =D its a very blur line cheating and stealing. you cheat but you don't steal; you steal but you don't cheat. but in the end of the day, is there any diff? it's still money in your pocket from someone else, well in this case, both are /morally wrong/.

this discussion will go nowhere. you either admit it or keep deceiving yourselves. (the 'you' isn't referring to you but whoever they think is themselves) =D

Click to expand...

Fully agree with you Waiter. Had this discussion with another member a few months ago and it all depends where you, personally, as a person, draw the line.

By building links with automated software, you are pushing mom & pop shops down the SERPS and indirectly stealing their business, i.e, stealing their money and taking food from their tables. It's the same concept.

Some people attempt to make themselves feel better by saying "oh, that's actually against the law, link building bots isn't." Who cares? Google's "law" stats that you're not allowed to use link building bots, and those rules were created by humans, the same humans that created our countries laws.

Point is, if you feel something is unethical, don't do it, but don't hate on other people and shaming them if you feel their views doesn't align with yours.

virtualbyron said:

By doing that you dont stole google, you stole people

Click to expand...

The problem is Adwords isn't a fair system either. Google blocks keywords and prices for which there are no bids, therefore it's not a real auction system. In a real auction system you set a reserve price and let competition decide the winning bid. So if for my keyword there are no bidders, I should win at the reserve price. This does not happen with Adwords.

I don't do click fraud and I think it's theft as you say, but let's not pretend like the Google system is the ethical standard either.

If people would spend half of the efforts they spend for divising a fraudulent activity for actually something useful (like improving their website quality), they would actually be surprised with the results.

Probably services like adsense clickers still should exist to punish idiots who attempt to use them so then they start looking into real and honest ways of making money.

I dont think we should be harsh with OP though, he merely asked.

i don't understand this kind of things. People re trying to do neg seo on competitors, flagging the videos, stealing money from others... and besides this, these things re temporary solution in your life. you cannot flag the videos or do negative seo for your whole life. personally, my enemy is google , not people like me who is trying to earn money on the internet. let people earn money.

Hi,

Lets have something clear.
I always said "no" to the customers that asked this. That why i said, "just talk about it", im not saying (like i do with other ideas) "im developing some software that does x AND Y stuff".

What i mean lets talk it just in theory is talking the technical pros and cons.
The IPs, per example, are no problem, i get that resolved, remember that i develope a working software that increase the CTR and Google does not notice, there is no reverse lookup that avoid this.
Google will not detect you if you do it in the right way, again, im selling a software that directly acts on Google and Google does not detect it.

I know that this could be seeing like out of the border line if we think in ethics, thats why i dont' accept and thats why i ask to discuss it in theory, not like something that i am planning to do. But most of seo tools, in some way or anohter are cheating people and the "system". If you use, per example, lLink Building tools, you are using other people resources (their servers and websites) to use it for your own interest. The idea of ranking better is taking some advantage... etc.

I dont like "bad" things. Per example other thing that many customers ask me is to use my tool to do negative SEO to competitors and i say a BIG AND FAT NO. I will never do something like that, i will not hurt someone, no matter if that makes me rich.

So, the ethics are clear, do not need to be discussed. We are hard working and honest people that know where is the line.

In the technical side, just in theory, if you succesfully find to not be recognized, which other "problem" could you find... if there is anothert technical problem?

That was my question.

However maybe is better to close the thread because it could be easily misunderstood.

To avoid misunderstoods, lets close the thread.

As i said, we are hard working and honest developers. We never hurt other people, we never accept to do negative SEO, per example.

I was just trying to talk the technical part in theory, the ethics are clear and solid.

Thanks to all for your opinions.