July 20 1969

Grizzy said:

I think you got it, but for anyone else I was joking lol.



For the same reasons that they believe in the other conspiracy theories involving global events and issues. Lack of education, ideological rejection of authority and science, and the deep-seeded need most people have to make sense of a very complex world that is for the most part 100% out of their control.

Their belief in a theory has very little to do with its specifics.

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Cool... I understand now... lol It's been a long day and I missed that you were joking.

bartosimpsonio said:

Sometimes I feel like stupid conspiracy theories are put out there to discredit the REAL ones. There were UFOs seen on the way to the moon. Nobody talks about those because, of course, we didn't go to the moon to begin with! Not going to the moon discredited the REAL story here. What the heck were the UFOs Buzz Aldrin saw? I forget which astronaut said that he saw a UFO out his window but did not speak about it into the radio because he knew they were being overheard by tons of people. If there's any "conspiracy" here it's the UFOs.

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When asked about stories of the crew seeing an UFO on the way to the moon, Aldrin grinned. "Yes, we saw something," he explained. "But you have to remember the times. We could not blare it out that we saw any UFO because everyone was listening and hanging on to every word we said."

"Delicately, we asked Houston the location of the SIVB (booster rocket) and they told us something like it was 6,000 miles away," Aldrin continued. "I remember we talked about it as being L-shaped."

"Over the years, there have been many suppositions and misrepresentations, but we believe now it was a panel left over from the separation of the spacecraft," winked Aldrin.

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http://www.examiner.com/article/ast...ttle-known-facts-about-the-first-moon-landing

The first ones certainly went to orbit the moon, and the rest of the "landing" images were cut-pasted from the earlier simulator training days. That explains the gently flowing flag. That cut-paste job was sufficient for the then Soviets to pour in all their moneys into their own space program and (try to) get even with the US. THAT was the biggest objective behind the first one or two manned lunar landings at least... to empty the M-resources of the Soviets, imho. Believe it or not!

Hence, because of the behind the control room cut-paste job operations, only a few top people knew about it, and the rest (rest of the world, scientists and NASA guys including! May be it was the easier way to stop the Soviets from leading the World politics, space, military, etc. scenes), only saw what they were shown, and not what actually happened.

And after the Apollo 13 mishap, the manned lunar landing missions were stopped. By that time the real mission behind the man on moon program was already accomplished.

srb888 said:

That explains the gently flowing flag.

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OMG LOL. The gently flowing flag can be explained by the fact that's exactly how a flag would be moving in a vacuum if you planted it in the ground like they did. If it were on Earth, the flag would sporadically settle down as the air acts against its motion, but since it's in the vacuum of space the slightest movement causes the flag to flap around seemingly forever (but actually it's only until the friction of the material slows it down). Do you even physics bro?

No I don't. That's why I look at all other facts that could help a nation move forward this way or that way. Physicists are dull in a way, always looking for scientific reasons, and nothing beyond scientific reasons. The world, political at least, doesn't give much damn to their views and reasons anyway. IMHO ofc. Peace be on BHW!

P.S.:
May be your physics reasoning is right, my friend, and they used it correctly for added drama! lol. And that way the people who mattered created exactly that physical "atmosphere" in the locality to make people fall for it, and after their suspicions were cleared later and conveniently "proved" to be 100% correct on Physics platform. Everything could have been precisely planned and executed... Huge Possibility! And then they had the last laugh, as Soviets couldn't match most of the US strategies until the end. IMHO again.

Peace!

P.S.:
Anyways, that was in the past. The future is China! I want to see how US tricks China and trips its global advancements. The Chinese think tanks are differernt though. They are more analytical and will have their own counter strategies... this is becoming a fascinating Chess middle game now! Popcorn time? I don't think China will get in to the space race. Not much beneficxial for them at this time. Anyway, they are hitting much harder and much lower! Trade and financial, with a control over the Africa and European zones. Asia has already almost gone under imo... It now has the jugulars of the west in their hands, and they are pressing them! By holding firm and putting enough pressure on the jugulars, the "enemy" can't think much and straight -- less oxygen to the brain, you see.


I'm not against the scenario that men actually landed on the moon, from the time the Eagle landed on it. But I am only putting forward a counter theory that they may not have done so actually! This should take the discussion forward with sufficient spices added to it for a different thought flavor... That's my only objective in "reasoning", anti-physics but may be in a more factual way! Think of politics -- POLITICS, and that too aimed at falling the biggest enemy! WOW! This can be a blockbuster...

Diverting the world's focus TO the flag movement was also a huge factor that enabled winning the ultimate war! IMO. People then saw only the flag and nothing else, and when they were satisfied by experts, they faithfully trusted and wanted the Soviets to go for the race! The flag played a massive role in making the Soviets submit to the world's intense expectations (to must-run the race) of them! All the battles were won by the flag on the moon, and not that much by the landing the foot on the moon, I think ...

hahaha.

I am|am not that serious anyway, and|but I am totally convinced that this could have well happened that time!

Techxan said:

I was in Boy Scout camp at the time, and they pulled all of us into the lunch room and let us watch the landing.

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It really was something. I was a little girl and remember like it was yesterday. My mother cried. She was in such awe.

I was 9 then. Another secret got unsecreted sh!!!t! lol. And I still remember the time we were glued to our ancient static-filled radio ironically called Bethoven! It ran on tubes; and transistors came much later to our part of the world, and ICs were not even in the dreams of its makers, I think.On the other side, a lucky man was already walking in pure joy in the gardens of moon -- a free ride given to him by the great people of a great nation called the USofA, who for once never minded the huge expenditure paid out of their hard-earned tax-money!!! A real fairy book story was unfolding at that great moment! And I was a mute but in-awe witness to it! One never ever forget such events even if they had happened in the distant past, and when you were busy learning the very basics of life! That also made one look up to the heavens and its stars in a different way! I remember that was my first outing, as an otherwise not-so-wise nose-wiping kid, with my eventual astronomical love life! lol

srb888 said:

No I don't. That's why I look at all other facts that could help a nation move forward this way or that way. Physicists are dull in a way, always looking for scientific reasons, and nothing beyond scientific reasons. The world, political at least, doesn't give much damn to their views and reasons anyway. IMHO ofc. Peace be on BHW!

P.S.:
May be your physics reasoning is right, my friend, and they used it correctly for added drama! lol. And that way the people who mattered created exactly that physical "atmosphere" in the locality to make people fall for it, and after their suspicions were cleared later and conveniently "proved" to be 100% correct on Physics platform. Everything could have been precisely planned and executed... Huge Possibility! And then they had the last laugh, as Soviets couldn't match most of the US strategies until the end. IMHO again.

Peace!

P.S.:
Anyways, that was in the past. The future is China! I want to see how US tricks China and trips its global advancements. The Chinese think tanks are differernt though. They are more analytical and will have their own counter strategies... this is becoming a fascinating Chess middle game now! Popcorn time? I don't think China will get in to the space race. Not much beneficxial for them at this time. Anyway, they are hitting much harder and much lower! Trade and financial, with a control over the Africa and European zones. Asia has already almost gone under imo... It now has the jugulars of the west in their hands, and they are pressing them! By holding firm and putting enough pressure on the jugulars, the "enemy" can't think much and straight -- less oxygen to the brain, you see.


I'm not against the scenario that men actually landed on the moon, from the time the Eagle landed on it. But I am only putting forward a counter theory that they may not have done so actually! This should take the discussion forward with sufficient spices added to it for a different thought flavor... That's my only objective in "reasoning", anti-physics but may be in a more factual way! Think of politics -- POLITICS, and that too aimed at falling the biggest enemy! WOW! This can be a blockbuster...

Diverting the world's focus TO the flag movement was also a huge factor that enabled winning the ultimate war! IMO. People then saw only the flag and nothing else, and when they were satisfied by experts, they faithfully trusted and wanted the Soviets to go for the race! The flag played a massive role in making the Soviets submit to the world's intense expectations (to must-run the race) of them! All the battles were won by the flag on the moon, and not that much by the landing the foot on the moon, I think ...

hahaha.

I am|am not that serious anyway, and|but I am totally convinced that this could have well happened that time!

Click to expand...

Facts are something that have actually occurred or are really the case, and they need to be verifiable. For example, the scientific facts that contradict your gentle flag theory... they have been verified by repeated scientific experiments. You have yet to present me with any verifiable facts that would allow me to consider your position. It's all just opinion so far.

But the crux of your argument seems to be that if my reasoning is right (it is because it's backed up by verifiable facts), then it's irrelevant because that's just part of the conspirators plan.... Don't you see how close minded of a position that is to take? You are basically saying that there is no single piece of evidence that could ever sway your opinion on this particular matter.

No one can force me to prove them! I am not here to win any court case! Just putting my mind's thoughts. And you haven't "proved" your theory either. And 1 theory doesn't make a full event possible. That's why I say physicists are dull people. You proved it. period.

I am not here to fight for my rights (my views are always right)! I am here to put across my views, where someone likes them or not. I am only adding my views so that a discussion in a friendly way goes forward in a right direction. Not here to debate with so called physicists. Damn the orders and get back to be my friend! lol And you're not my physics teacher who needs proofs for my words! lol He is quite peaceful with me now, he's been dead long ago, and he must be asking the Gods to prove to his earthly brains how things are happening there contrary to his physics base., nothing much else. In short, let other view their views in peace, and don't ask them to prove all theories which you might have learned in a small school room. This is a greater (forum) life after all! Save those orders for the kids...

jk, mentioning just in case. No further points to prove. If someone has praised your views in the past, learn to live in that happiness. Don't fck others' (views, however wrong they may seem to you!)... End of the story line here on this front.

Btw, there are political facts too running the global structure for all of us. They have no scientific base either. Go fight them and win. You have my vote to do so. jk

Facts can change to become lies... heard of a flat world said by then approved scientists? Heard of the Sun rotating around the Earth and the "fact" was put forth by scientists? Ever thought that the scientists never knew how to use the zero and make things easier? Have you read that people believed that UFO were only existing in the story books? Still the scientists are not believing many facts because that will sent their jobs to someone else and make them seat at home. This last point may be going a bit too far... just like you're going a bit too far on a IM forum. Peace! The world is full of views that can contradict yours. Simply, live with them and enjoy!

OK?

Have you heard that a judge rules by the production of facts about the case and nothing else? Are those facts right then? because someone calls them "facts"? Don't bend the words backwards to suit your purpose. The "facts" I mentioned should be taken in a simpler way, not as a thing that can be proved ONLY on the Physics laws. You are too much, literally!... Sometime in future try to understand the whole and all-round meaning. It will do your reasoning mind much good ,or you'll keep it in an argument stage forever.

Grizzy said:

Facts are something that have actually occurred or are really the case, and they need to be verifiable. For example, the scientific facts that contradict your gentle flag theory... they have been verified by repeated scientific experiments. You have yet to present me with any verifiable facts that would allow me to consider your position. It's all just opinion so far.

But the crux of your argument seems to be that if my reasoning is right (it is because it's backed up by verifiable facts), then it's irrelevant because that's just part of the conspirators plan.... Don't you see how close minded of a position that is to take? You are basically saying that there is no single piece of evidence that could ever sway your opinion on this particular matter.

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Now now srb, no need to get your jimmies out. You have your views on this matter and I have mine. Mine just happen to be based off of scientifically verifiable facts is all.




But like I said earlier, an outright rejection of science...

Cool

Down! So yours is lot bigger and meatier, and a lot crooked too than mine! (talking of your great physically scientific brain here, please don't take me wrong, lol) You win the WW III war... Satisfied? lol

Now that I have praised your great brain too, and remember no one has done that ever and I am sure, and you win... so...

Peace at last? ... dude!

45 years ago, you say? Please tell me what major things we've done since then. Here's a few:

We still haven't gone to another planet.
We still rely on space shuttles.
We haven't sent an average person to space yet.

45 years is a LONG time. It's amazing that they were actually able to send a person to the moon to begin with. Look at how much has changed in the world in the past 5 years to put it in perspective. Too bad there's no money to be made in space, yet.

By the way, I'm not being serious. Or am I?

We have actually brought the world nearer to its end! Isn't that enough? That day has began our future exodus to that place somehow, may be only for some mighty rich and influential people. Beginning of a new history chapter and an end of another... Hope we all shall meet there in better times!


Btw, you can still make much money out of it! You can sell some of the dust from there, on ebay where else? I have some, and @ $100/gm., it's a steal! P'M (not|don't) me for more info! lol

Captain_Crunch said:

45 years ago, you say? Please tell me what major things we've done since then. Here's a few:

We still haven't gone to another planet.
We still rely on space shuttles.
We haven't sent an average person to space yet.

45 years is a LONG time. It's amazing that they were actually able to send a person to the moon to begin with. Look at how much has changed in the world in the past 5 years to put it in perspective. Too bad there's no money to be made in space, yet.

Click to expand...

Captain_Crunch said:

45 years ago, you say? Please tell me what major things we've done since then. Here's a few:

We still haven't gone to another planet.
We still rely on space shuttles.
We haven't sent an average person to space yet.

45 years is a LONG time. It's amazing that they were actually able to send a person to the moon to begin with. Look at how much has changed in the world in the past 5 years to put it in perspective. Too bad there's no money to be made in space, yet.

By the way, I'm not being serious. Or am I?

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Ever hear of the International Space Station? We now put satellites into orbit and take them out of orbit without much fanfare. A whole lot has taken place in "space" since the landing on the moon.

srb888 said:

That cut-paste job was sufficient for the then Soviets to pour in all their moneys into their own space program and (try to) get even with the US. THAT was the biggest objective behind the first one or two manned lunar landings at least... to empty the M-resources of the Soviets, imho. Believe it or not!

Click to expand...

Ignore the fact that the Soviets did the obvious thing after the US landing, i.e. pulled the plug out of their own programs. Because f*ck reality, right?

Those are assumptions only and they are to be taken as lightly as possible on our IM forums' lounge section. Whatever happened then could be lot worse, imho only! lol.

bartosimpsonio said:

There is overwhelming evidence of the contrary.

1) The Russians would have denounced it if it were a farse. It was the height of the Cold War.

2) There are a bunch of artifacts on the moon installed there by man.

3) None of the photography and footage has ever been revealed to be fake. There are very very high resolution photos of it all.

4) In over 40 years all three astronauts have been bombarded with questions and they always got the story right and never contradicted anything and all their reports of the moon landing were scientifically correct and consistent.

So if this were a farse, this big, this immense, you'd have plenty of contradictions and inconsistencies in over 40 years of public scrutiny.

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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, I'm in no way saying that the moon landing is fake. I'm aware of the things you mentioned in your post.

Keep in mind that 45 years is just a drop in the bucket. It seems a long time to us because it's a good portion of a lifetime but we have made scientific advances. True, we haven't made it to another planet but the difference in distance between us and the moon is pretty small when compared to the distance between us and another planet. Also, the issue isn't getting a rocket there, we've put rockets onto other planets (not going to look up the info right now, but it's easily findable). Putting a human there would mean not only the fuel, but the time and requirement for food and water - much more difficult.

What we need are engines that move past the combustion engines we currently use - something that many different scientists are currently working on (watch the Science or Discovery channels for awhile and you'll see what I mean). We will get there eventually but yea, I don't like that the US has decimated our space program. IMHO it's very short sited of our government.

OldSalt said:

Keep in mind that 45 years is just a drop in the bucket. It seems a long time to us because it's a good portion of a lifetime but we have made scientific advances. True, we haven't made it to another planet but the difference in distance between us and the moon is pretty small when compared to the distance between us and another planet. Also, the issue isn't getting a rocket there, we've put rockets onto other planets (not going to look up the info right now, but it's easily findable). Putting a human there would mean not only the fuel, but the time and requirement for food and water - much more difficult.

What we need are engines that move past the combustion engines we currently use - something that many different scientists are currently working on (watch the Science or Discovery channels for awhile and you'll see what I mean). We will get there eventually but yea, I don't like that the US has decimated our space program. IMHO it's very short sited of our government.

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Allow me to partially disagree. The reason we went to the moon is because US was in a (cold) war with Russia, so we went there to survive. Historically there have been 3 reasons for big projects; Survival, Money, Religion with the latter one dying out in the last decades. It's not that we don't have the technology because we're unable to do so, it's because we don't fund it. Going to Mars won't ensure our survival neither will have an "immediate" (4-8 years) economic effect.

Also to avoid any misunderstanding, there are many reasons for space exploration but only two, which at the moment aren't present, for a government to fund it.

tttoq said:

Allow me to partially disagree. The reason we went to the moon is because US was in a (cold) war with Russia, so we went there to survive. Historically there have been 3 reasons for big projects; Survival, Money, Religion with the latter one dying out in the last decades. It's not that we don't have the technology because we're unable to do so, it's because we don't fund it. Going to Mars won't ensure our survival neither will have an "immediate" (4-8 years) economic effect.

Also to avoid any misunderstanding, there are many reasons for space exploration but only two, which at the moment aren't present, for a government to fund it.

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That time it was only the Soviets who were the "enemy"... now it's the whole world (middle east, China vs japan and far-east, south-east, eastern Europe, euro too, corruption, poverty and terr0rism, and the condition of economy that is unfortunately hitting US people more than anything else... funds need to go more towards easing those situations out in a hurry. NASA is doing all that it has to, but may be, imo, it must take a back seat. That time it was a small step for man and a giant leap for mankind... now we need a giant kick from a man to stop buggers from destroying peace and the only place of mankind. That can be achieved, I think, within another 45 years at the most. So lets all start that kick hitting the right backsides, and make our politicians begin kicking too. This small but very important step from humans was missing for a long long time... Once these 45 years are passed (not failed), then...

... then we all can very frequently, casually go to the moon for sightseeing -- I have heard those astronauts and cosmonauts says that the world, OUR sweet world, really looks very beautiful from up there!