TheBigOneder
Registered Member
- Apr 3, 2012
- 66
- 24
Subscribed. Curious...
lagger
Power Member
- May 10, 2011
- 511
- 184
I wouldn't use Adsense. A network is a network no matter what color you paint it. I would suggest using a different monitizing format.
I would suggest using aged domains with pr.
Also I would just abandon forums all together, the idea is to index loads of pages/links without much work. Forums would be a headache.
Heres a thought have your sites syndicate to some web 2.0's and esc.. There are various ways to accomplish this task. Can u image your foundation sites having 10 links to every page?
I would suggest using aged domains with pr.
Also I would just abandon forums all together, the idea is to index loads of pages/links without much work. Forums would be a headache.
Heres a thought have your sites syndicate to some web 2.0's and esc.. There are various ways to accomplish this task. Can u image your foundation sites having 10 links to every page?
Excellent! Thanks for the support. I'm interested to see what we can do as well LOL!
Yeah I hear what you're saying about AdSense. TBH, I'm a noob with ads and affiliates, and I think that will be my biggest challenge. There are some really great threads in the Make Money part of the forum that I will need to study. It would be nice if I didn't make a bunch of dumb mistakes right away, and perhaps you've saved me from one lagger.
I will be using aged domains. We're not going to abandon the idea of forums, but we're not going to invest too heavily in them as far as development goes. It might be a nice asset to have, though, which is why we might just set it up and let it ride. One thing that we will do for the forums is hardcore KW research. I think the only way that we can make it work is if we give a needy, perhaps somewhat computer illerate, community a forum haha. That way atleast it'd be populated.
Syndication is something that we're looking into as well. Can I imagine having every page of the foundation having 10 backlinks? Yes, I can. We will be testing exactly what difference the number of outbound links makes on a page, and I will be posting the results here.
Sexylingerie
Newbie
- Jun 7, 2012
- 48
- 5
Good luck, just wish you success
madoctopus
Supreme Member
- Apr 4, 2010
- 1,388
- 3,708
Eli's posts are from 2008 or around that time. At that time what he explained worked. Today it doesn't work the same. Today having a site with tens of thousands of pages give another site a few links doesn't help much. Giving many links (thousands) is probably even worse.
While the aproach with DB/madlib sites is a good long term, large scale strategy, it requires massive amounts of sites and has huge costs. I don't think that you can have each site cover it's costs by itself. Worked a while ago, probably not a good idea now.
Using AdSense for monetization of a network is an epic fail. Maybe not immediately but when you'll get hit, you'll get all the sites hit at once. Find other methods to monetize - something that doesn't have a footprint. That means any affiliate code that is the same on 2 sites is a potential problem. Maybe not but I don't like to risk. CB, Nextag, AdSense, YPN, etc all that have just one tracking code are potentially dangerous. Amazon works great because you can have as many tracking codes as you wish. But maybe not great for the types of sites you have in mind.
The footprint avoidance strategy from my link networks thread still works (you asked my by PM) with the update that SEO hosting is problematic. SEO hosting is crap. Massive dangerous stinky crap. Google knows those IPs are all from a SEO host. Even the best hosts are crap. Only way to be 100% safe is to buy regular shared hosting (even very cheap at $1-2/mo with very little space and traffic is better). Also domains must have fake WHOIS info. Some can be with whois privacy but most should have real info (but fake and different from every other domain). Obviously don't use google analytics. You can use Piwik but not in default mode where you track all sites from one central server because tracking link will be the same on all sites and thats a footprint. You have to hack Piwik and create a modified tracking system where when a user loads a page instead of Piwik recording that on central server by the URL or on local host it will perform a cURL request in backend to central server. That curl request being behind the curtain is undetectable and not a footprint.
About the site types... i wouldn't take that approach. I would instead build niche related sites with 20-100 pages each. Some on WP some on Joomla, some on Drupal some on other CMS'. Vary everything. You need a lot of sites for medium to high competitive niches. 50 is a good number to start with. Target however 100-200 sites/niche (if big/competitive) all on different shared hosting accounts. Yes it is very expensive but is the only truly safe way. From google and any competitor that might analyze the network.
Ideally use expired/dropped domains (Godaddy auctions and the like) that have good backlinks. It is not enough for the domain to have PR. It must have actual links and those links must be strong enough to make up that PR otherwise you can expect PR to drop on next update. I could write an entire book on choosing expired domains with PR... I've seen courses explaining how to do it and they are kinda crap because they don't understand fundamentals and don't tell you about important things (they don't know). Baically you can find a PR5 on GoDaddy for $200-$300. A real PR5 with actual links to make up that PR5 would probably be won at the auction at over $1000. As a matter of fact $1000 for a real PR5 is not much. You make the math. You can pay $200 for a PR5 that gives you no real juice, just an illusion or you can pay $1000 for a real PR5 that has loads of juice. Or, you could develop fresh domains from scratch. PR doesn't really matter. PR is just an indicator not the actual value. Depending on a lot of other things a PR3 site could actually be more beneficial than a PR5 because PR is not the only thing that matters.
I hope that helps. I would have to literally write 50 pages to explain all but i guess this will have to do
Good luck!
While the aproach with DB/madlib sites is a good long term, large scale strategy, it requires massive amounts of sites and has huge costs. I don't think that you can have each site cover it's costs by itself. Worked a while ago, probably not a good idea now.
Using AdSense for monetization of a network is an epic fail. Maybe not immediately but when you'll get hit, you'll get all the sites hit at once. Find other methods to monetize - something that doesn't have a footprint. That means any affiliate code that is the same on 2 sites is a potential problem. Maybe not but I don't like to risk. CB, Nextag, AdSense, YPN, etc all that have just one tracking code are potentially dangerous. Amazon works great because you can have as many tracking codes as you wish. But maybe not great for the types of sites you have in mind.
The footprint avoidance strategy from my link networks thread still works (you asked my by PM) with the update that SEO hosting is problematic. SEO hosting is crap. Massive dangerous stinky crap. Google knows those IPs are all from a SEO host. Even the best hosts are crap. Only way to be 100% safe is to buy regular shared hosting (even very cheap at $1-2/mo with very little space and traffic is better). Also domains must have fake WHOIS info. Some can be with whois privacy but most should have real info (but fake and different from every other domain). Obviously don't use google analytics. You can use Piwik but not in default mode where you track all sites from one central server because tracking link will be the same on all sites and thats a footprint. You have to hack Piwik and create a modified tracking system where when a user loads a page instead of Piwik recording that on central server by the URL or on local host it will perform a cURL request in backend to central server. That curl request being behind the curtain is undetectable and not a footprint.
About the site types... i wouldn't take that approach. I would instead build niche related sites with 20-100 pages each. Some on WP some on Joomla, some on Drupal some on other CMS'. Vary everything. You need a lot of sites for medium to high competitive niches. 50 is a good number to start with. Target however 100-200 sites/niche (if big/competitive) all on different shared hosting accounts. Yes it is very expensive but is the only truly safe way. From google and any competitor that might analyze the network.
Ideally use expired/dropped domains (Godaddy auctions and the like) that have good backlinks. It is not enough for the domain to have PR. It must have actual links and those links must be strong enough to make up that PR otherwise you can expect PR to drop on next update. I could write an entire book on choosing expired domains with PR... I've seen courses explaining how to do it and they are kinda crap because they don't understand fundamentals and don't tell you about important things (they don't know). Baically you can find a PR5 on GoDaddy for $200-$300. A real PR5 with actual links to make up that PR5 would probably be won at the auction at over $1000. As a matter of fact $1000 for a real PR5 is not much. You make the math. You can pay $200 for a PR5 that gives you no real juice, just an illusion or you can pay $1000 for a real PR5 that has loads of juice. Or, you could develop fresh domains from scratch. PR doesn't really matter. PR is just an indicator not the actual value. Depending on a lot of other things a PR3 site could actually be more beneficial than a PR5 because PR is not the only thing that matters.
I hope that helps. I would have to literally write 50 pages to explain all but i guess this will have to do
Good luck!Eli's posts are from 2008 or around that time. At that time what he explained worked. Today it doesn't work the same. Today having a site with tens of thousands of pages give another site a few links doesn't help much. Giving many links (thousands) is probably even worse.
While the aproach with DB/madlib sites is a good long term, large scale strategy, it requires massive amounts of sites and has huge costs. I don't think that you can have each site cover it's costs by itself. Worked a while ago, probably not a good idea now.
Using AdSense for monetization of a network is an epic fail. Maybe not immediately but when you'll get hit, you'll get all the sites hit at once. Find other methods to monetize - something that doesn't have a footprint. That means any affiliate code that is the same on 2 sites is a potential problem. Maybe not but I don't like to risk. CB, Nextag, AdSense, YPN, etc all that have just one tracking code are potentially dangerous. Amazon works great because you can have as many tracking codes as you wish. But maybe not great for the types of sites you have in mind.
The footprint avoidance strategy from my link networks thread still works (you asked my by PM) with the update that SEO hosting is problematic. SEO hosting is crap. Massive dangerous stinky crap. Google knows those IPs are all from a SEO host. Even the best hosts are crap. Only way to be 100% safe is to buy regular shared hosting (even very cheap at $1-2/mo with very little space and traffic is better). Also domains must have fake WHOIS info. Some can be with whois privacy but most should have real info (but fake and different from every other domain). Obviously don't use google analytics. You can use Piwik but not in default mode where you track all sites from one central server because tracking link will be the same on all sites and thats a footprint. You have to hack Piwik and create a modified tracking system where when a user loads a page instead of Piwik recording that on central server by the URL or on local host it will perform a cURL request in backend to central server. That curl request being behind the curtain is undetectable and not a footprint.
About the site types... i wouldn't take that approach. I would instead build niche related sites with 20-100 pages each. Some on WP some on Joomla, some on Drupal some on other CMS'. Vary everything. You need a lot of sites for medium to high competitive niches. 50 is a good number to start with. Target however 100-200 sites/niche (if big/competitive) all on different shared hosting accounts. Yes it is very expensive but is the only truly safe way. From google and any competitor that might analyze the network.
Ideally use expired/dropped domains (Godaddy auctions and the like) that have good backlinks. It is not enough for the domain to have PR. It must have actual links and those links must be strong enough to make up that PR otherwise you can expect PR to drop on next update. I could write an entire book on choosing expired domains with PR... I've seen courses explaining how to do it and they are kinda crap because they don't understand fundamentals and don't tell you about important things (they don't know). Baically you can find a PR5 on GoDaddy for $200-$300. A real PR5 with actual links to make up that PR5 would probably be won at the auction at over $1000. As a matter of fact $1000 for a real PR5 is not much. You make the math. You can pay $200 for a PR5 that gives you no real juice, just an illusion or you can pay $1000 for a real PR5 that has loads of juice. Or, you could develop fresh domains from scratch. PR doesn't really matter. PR is just an indicator not the actual value. Depending on a lot of other things a PR3 site could actually be more beneficial than a PR5 because PR is not the only thing that matters.
I hope that helps. I would have to literally write 50 pages to explain all but i guess this will have to do
Wow madoctopus. Thanks for your time, really appreciate you coming to the thread and dropping some knowledge. This is a lot to process. In fact, it kind of throws a monkey wrench in our entire strategy thus far. Alas, we will press on.
I do have a couple of questions for you:
I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is how it is possible to support some medium sized number of sites in today's SEO environment.
I like the database site idea because they are pretty easy to set up and are very flexible in terms of the content that they generate. I'm assuming that you the niche sites are to be money sites, not a supporting network?
And supposing that we set up a bunch of niche sites, how do we support them initially? It is obviously quite costly to set up a bunch of medium-sized sites (many weeks in content alone,) and if they aren't related then there's no point in interlinking them even if we could avoid footprints. Should we proceed to spamming free blogs with scraped content and such and then use those to begin supporting them? If we need to build a bunch of these sites and then buy links to them, that's just not economically feasible. I suppose your advice would be stellar keyword research?
Is it worth building a backend for these medium-sized niche sites for linking, or should these be whitehat only?
Gonna have to rethink this a little bit I guess
.
madoctopus
Supreme Member
- Apr 4, 2010
- 1,388
- 3,708
There's no way to make the support sites make money and have no footprints. Well, there is but depends on your niche and lots of other factors. You basically have to invest money into the network before it makes any money.
You can interlink the main money sites just not in an obvious manner. Interlink just from 2 posts or so to other posts on 2nd site. From other 2 posts to 3rd site and so on. On a 100 page site is not a footprint especially if it is not an obvious link for SEO but looks natural.
If you don't have the budget, start with 10 sites on cheap hosts $1-2/mo and grow from there.
Focus on powerful links first - guest posts, d0f0llow comments, high PR links, etc. and relevant links - from related threads in forums and the like. You only need a handful of powerful links to rank well for mid competition keywords.
Focus on user generated content if possible - forum or whatever - so that your visitors grow your site.
On lower tier you can build crappy sites with computer generated content or autospun just make sure to bury them so they don't come and bite you in the ass later. I personally don't do this but then again I have content generators that produce readable content - tens of thousands of posts (i invested a year and shitloads of money in building it).
Buy premium EMDs if possible ad if you have the budget - i invested over $8000 in premium EMDs. They rock for SEO when combined with an authority site and good links.
Automation related, you can build an interface where you add an article in spintax and it gets scheduled for random publishing on your support network. So on one site you get first post1 on the other first is post5, etc.
There are literally tens if not hundreds of pages I'd have to write to explain it all properly and as you can assume i don't have the time for holding your hand. Even more my methods are impossible to implement by you since they are beyond complex (some of them).
If you are in health-pills/casino/porn niches just spam and cloack and computer gen. content as you won't get penalized and even if you do you make a profit before it happens. I know people who make money with OpenBH using completely blackhat methods. Then again you have to decide if you want a long term white hat (at least in front) system or full black hat.
About the links you can get, there are loads. Just stop following retards that all they know is scrapebox blasts, xrumer profiles and crap links and start looking for link opportunities yourself. Both comment spam and xrumer work great just not how most people use them. As a matter of fact xrumer or sb blast directly to money site is just fine and safe if you do it drip-fed and targeted.
Seriously whet you want me to do is just give you a strategy to follow which i won't for 3 reasons - 1. would take too much time to explain all details (detail make or break a strategy); 2. my strategy is too complicated to follow; 3. my strategy is not for anybody else's eyes.
One thing to understand is that if you don't plan things well, especially budget and what you can realistically sustain, you will crash before you even start your engine. Don't over-extend beyond your skills, time, money, etc.
Stop spending time on forums. If you start working on this stop reading forums and seo guides and blogs - 99% of the posts about SEO are complete crap and will make you run in circles without achieving anything. Just go and reverse engineer successful sites and competitors.
Niche and keywords matter a lot, also competition. For some SEO fights you need the atomic bomb, for others you only need a stick to win. Pick your fight wisely.
Any type of link building works (except n0f0llow that is just a waste of time). ANY! Even link directories (e.g. PhpLD) and profiles (though I wouldn't waste my time there at least not in the beginning). People fail at link building not because Google doesn't like a type of link but because they don't understand how to build those links and what makes a link count or get filtered (or flagged against you) and most fail because they blast hundreds or thousands at once. Pay attention to your link velocity.
Good luck
You can interlink the main money sites just not in an obvious manner. Interlink just from 2 posts or so to other posts on 2nd site. From other 2 posts to 3rd site and so on. On a 100 page site is not a footprint especially if it is not an obvious link for SEO but looks natural.
If you don't have the budget, start with 10 sites on cheap hosts $1-2/mo and grow from there.
Focus on powerful links first - guest posts, d0f0llow comments, high PR links, etc. and relevant links - from related threads in forums and the like. You only need a handful of powerful links to rank well for mid competition keywords.
Focus on user generated content if possible - forum or whatever - so that your visitors grow your site.
On lower tier you can build crappy sites with computer generated content or autospun just make sure to bury them so they don't come and bite you in the ass later. I personally don't do this but then again I have content generators that produce readable content - tens of thousands of posts (i invested a year and shitloads of money in building it).
Buy premium EMDs if possible ad if you have the budget - i invested over $8000 in premium EMDs. They rock for SEO when combined with an authority site and good links.
Automation related, you can build an interface where you add an article in spintax and it gets scheduled for random publishing on your support network. So on one site you get first post1 on the other first is post5, etc.
There are literally tens if not hundreds of pages I'd have to write to explain it all properly and as you can assume i don't have the time for holding your hand. Even more my methods are impossible to implement by you since they are beyond complex (some of them).
If you are in health-pills/casino/porn niches just spam and cloack and computer gen. content as you won't get penalized and even if you do you make a profit before it happens. I know people who make money with OpenBH using completely blackhat methods. Then again you have to decide if you want a long term white hat (at least in front) system or full black hat.
About the links you can get, there are loads. Just stop following retards that all they know is scrapebox blasts, xrumer profiles and crap links and start looking for link opportunities yourself. Both comment spam and xrumer work great just not how most people use them. As a matter of fact xrumer or sb blast directly to money site is just fine and safe if you do it drip-fed and targeted.
Seriously whet you want me to do is just give you a strategy to follow which i won't for 3 reasons - 1. would take too much time to explain all details (detail make or break a strategy); 2. my strategy is too complicated to follow; 3. my strategy is not for anybody else's eyes.
One thing to understand is that if you don't plan things well, especially budget and what you can realistically sustain, you will crash before you even start your engine. Don't over-extend beyond your skills, time, money, etc.
Stop spending time on forums. If you start working on this stop reading forums and seo guides and blogs - 99% of the posts about SEO are complete crap and will make you run in circles without achieving anything. Just go and reverse engineer successful sites and competitors.
Niche and keywords matter a lot, also competition. For some SEO fights you need the atomic bomb, for others you only need a stick to win. Pick your fight wisely.
Any type of link building works (except n0f0llow that is just a waste of time). ANY! Even link directories (e.g. PhpLD) and profiles (though I wouldn't waste my time there at least not in the beginning). People fail at link building not because Google doesn't like a type of link but because they don't understand how to build those links and what makes a link count or get filtered (or flagged against you) and most fail because they blast hundreds or thousands at once. Pay attention to your link velocity.
Good luck
Last edited:
Just a quick update here.
Decided to take madoctopus' advice here and scrap a plan centered around big indexes. We will still be doing these sites, they will be a liability until we actually draw traffic towards them. The plan now is to use Xrumer to create and support a flognet. We are still trying to get a copy of the software at the moment, so there won't be too much information to share for a while.
I will still keep this thread updated whenever I have something to add.
Decided to take madoctopus' advice here and scrap a plan centered around big indexes. We will still be doing these sites, they will be a liability until we actually draw traffic towards them. The plan now is to use Xrumer to create and support a flognet. We are still trying to get a copy of the software at the moment, so there won't be too much information to share for a while.
I will still keep this thread updated whenever I have something to add.
madoctopus
Supreme Member
- Apr 4, 2010
- 1,388
- 3,708
Just prepare 20 seeds (spintax format of articles) in ultra-spun format (2 paragraphs, 3 sentences, words). Make these generic like a 17yo teen would write on his personal blog.
Register 200 free blog accounts on 100 platforms (2/platform).
Over the course of a few months add 10-20 (random number) of posts from those seeds in a random order (so you don't have "My dog got sick today" as 1st post on all blogs, etc).
That's your core generic free blog network. Just don't link from it each of your satellites because it would be obvious.
Register 200 free blog accounts on 100 platforms (2/platform).
Over the course of a few months add 10-20 (random number) of posts from those seeds in a random order (so you don't have "My dog got sick today" as 1st post on all blogs, etc).
That's your core generic free blog network. Just don't link from it each of your satellites because it would be obvious.