is ok to use tables now?

artizhay said:
So if someone were to make you a custom car, you wouldn't care if it adhered to the latest standard internal engineering, so long as it looked good on the outside? That's what I'm getting out of your self-deprecating statement.
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Well I wouldn't if it were made by one of the top 10 car manifacturers.

These aren't standards like for example JPEG or MOV, it's just a bunch of recommendations and the proponents disagree on many points among themselves all the time. Just have a look at the endless internal discussions about bold and strong. They are even calling each other nazis lol.
 
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I used to love tables simply because I was able to create a website with my eyes closed and make it look the way I wanted with them, but times change and CSS has a lot of advantages over tables. It also used to be true that web browsers loaded tables as a whole, thus delaying the content/design presentation until everything got loaded; I'm not sure anymore if that's how browsers still render them or not, but once I learned CSS, tables simply had no other place than showing data when appropiate.

I've read that google themselves don't give any more weight per se to a CSS website compared to a table based one, though.
 
artizhay said:
So if someone were to make you a custom car, you wouldn't care if it adhered to the latest standard internal engineering, so long as it looked good on the outside? That's what I'm getting out of your self-deprecating statement.
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Now we getting into the grey areas, My point of view is If it works fuck it, it works who care's if its not up to code. This is the internet No one going to die. With a car someone could die So totally different scenarios. LOL relax.
 
I used to do marketing where CTO insisted all websites were designed using tables.

All the designers, UX/UI guys HATED it. We ended up outsourcing alot of the HTML coding to some Ukrainians (was not my decision), who did a piss poor job, alot of stuff had to be redone.

Do yourself a favor and just learn CSS, gotta use the proper tool for the job.
 
thanks again for the opinions everyone! i've been doing some research on the css stuff, and found a few resources and examples.

cheers :)
 
big NO NO for the tables if you ask me...that's so 90s :) also, playing around with divs and css is faster and way more flexible :)
 
I would recommend to use divs instead of tables as it is very old fashion way of doing something with the tables. Also, divs are more flexible than tables.
 
Am I the only one who finds CSS easier than tables? Once you have a basic grasp of CSS and divs it's very easy to use...
 
mutatedllama said:
Am I the only one who finds CSS easier than tables? Once you have a basic grasp of CSS and divs it's very easy to use...
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I find it much easier. I really don't get how anyone would prefer using tables over CSS unless they were really struggling to grasp CSS.
 
artizhay said:
So if someone were to make you a custom car, you wouldn't care if it adhered to the latest standard internal engineering, so long as it looked good on the outside? That's what I'm getting out of your self-deprecating statement.
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Pretty much comparing apples to, i dunno, rain gutters? It's not like he's going to be driving his website down the street, and suddenly the address bar falls off and his passenger falls to their death.

Seriously, if it gets the job done and it makes money, who cares if you draw the thing out with crayons, scan it with your circa 1995 chunky scanner and upload it as a .bmp?
 
iiaok said:
Pretty much comparing apples to, i dunno, rain gutters? It's not like he's going to be driving his website down the street, and suddenly the address bar falls off and his passenger falls to their death.

Seriously, if it gets the job done and it makes money, who cares if you draw the thing out with crayons, scan it with your circa 1995 chunky scanner and upload it as a .bmp?
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I think that is a really bad ethic to have, 'if it gets the job done and makes money, who cares'. If you do good quality work, it shows and you will get more business from it.
 
Chris22 said:
I think that is a really bad ethic to have, 'if it gets the job done and makes money, who cares'. If you do good quality work, it shows and you will get more business from it.
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Not sure OP ever mentioned that it was for someone else. He said "my design" which, IMO, meant that he was putting together something for himself.

If that's the case, can you tell me why it would make sense to sit around and learn instead of getting something put together and making money while you learn?
 
1.) No, you're not going to get any type of SEO penalty or design penalty for using tables.
2.) Many places still use tables. I just view-sourced all my open tabs, tables on every one of them.

Most of the rest of you are fucking idiots. Quit wasting dude's time and answer the goddamn questions. (Especially the car retard (websites are not cars,) the "only morons think tables are easier" moron (show me the DIV button) and the same "you'll lose business by using HTML>CSS." (Because every visitor views-source to ensure CSS-driven layout.) You're still a moron. He'll lose business sitting around dicking with something he doesn't understand when he could have had it done in something he did understand weeks ago.)
 
meatro said:
1.) No, you're not going to get any type of SEO penalty or design penalty for using tables.
2.) Many places still use tables. I just view-sourced all my open tabs, tables on every one of them.

Most of the rest of you are fucking idiots. Quit wasting dude's time and answer the goddamn questions. (Especially the car retard (websites are not cars,) the "only morons think tables are easier" moron (show me the DIV button) and the same "you'll lose business by using HTML>CSS." (Because every visitor views-source to ensure CSS-driven layout.) You're still a moron. He'll lose business sitting around dicking with something he doesn't understand when he could have had it done in something he did understand weeks ago.)
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In your hypothetical (he's building just for himself) and he just wants to get something quick up and running to make $ asap, sure he can use tables.

Thing is though, if he's at all thinking long term, if his site becomes big he's going to want to outsource design, and in my experience it's hard to find good designers who are going to want to work with tables. Top professionals use best available tools, and best available tool for UX/UI is CSS, as many mentioned in this thread.

Many of the other points raised in this thread may not have directly applied to OP's situation, but were pertinent to the larger subject discussed of CSS vs tables, and were useful to anyone clicking this thread, not just the OP.

But way to jump the shark and alienate everyone in the thread by calling them idiots because you disagree with them.
 
demongerbil said:
In your hypothetical (he's building just for himself) and he just wants to get something quick up and running to make $ asap, sure he can use tables.

Thing is though, if he's at all thinking long term, if his site becomes big he's going to want to outsource design, and in my experience it's hard to find good designers who are going to want to work with tables. Top professionals use best available tools, and best available tool for UX/UI is CSS, as many mentioned in this thread.

Many of the other points raised in this thread may not have directly applied to OP's situation, but were pertinent to the larger subject discussed of CSS vs tables, and were useful to anyone clicking this thread, not just the OP.

But way to jump the shark and alienate everyone in the thread by calling them idiots because you disagree with them.
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I made myself very clear. I will do it again to clarify my clarity.

1. Websites are not cars. Your header is not going to fall off and send you and all your visitors careening off the internet to your deaths.
2. You are not going to lose business or gain business based on whether or not you use tables vs CSS. That's a retarded statement and you know it.

Now, as for this all being relevant. No it isn't. Blabbing on and arguing about best practices and blah blah blah is completely irrelevant, especially when nobody can STFU and answer his question. They just drone on and on about CSS vs HTML when the guy already SAID THAT THIS WAS A SECTION TO BE USED FOR TABULAR DATA (A COMPARISON TABLE.) NOT HIS LAYOUT.

If you are planning on using DIVs for that, you're retarded, too.

Read more. Talk less.
 
meatro said:
I made myself very clear. I will do it again to clarify my clarity.

1. Websites are not cars. Your header is not going to fall off and send you and all your visitors careening off the internet to your deaths.
2. You are not going to lose business or gain business based on whether or not you use tables vs CSS. That's a retarded statement and you know it.

Now, as for this all being relevant. No it isn't. Blabbing on and arguing about best practices and blah blah blah is completely irrelevant, especially when nobody can STFU and answer his question. They just drone on and on about CSS vs HTML when the guy already SAID THAT THIS WAS A SECTION TO BE USED FOR TABULAR DATA (A COMPARISON TABLE.) NOT HIS LAYOUT.

If you are planning on using DIVs for that, you're retarded, too.

Read more. Talk less.
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He said it was a comparison table only after about 10 comments/suggestions from some very knowledgeable people, including jazzc, Seo Lover and davids355.

"i have decided i won't use tables for the design" - looks like he made that decision after reading their comments.

Then the discussion expanded into larger question of merits of CSS vs tables. Some good points made both ways.

Fast forward 5 days from the original post meatro comes into the thread, calls everyone an idiot, makes a point that's already had been made (albeit in less abusive/crude language) in the thread and peaces out.

Hell of a contribution to the discussion, dude.
 
demongerbil said:
He said it was a comparison table only after about 10 comments/suggestions from some very knowledgeable people, including jazzc, Seo Lover and davids355.

"i have decided i won't use tables for the design" - looks like he made that decision after reading their comments.

Then the discussion expanded into larger question of merits of CSS vs tables. Some good points made both ways.

Fast forward 5 days from the original post meatro comes into the thread, calls everyone an idiot, makes a point that's already had been made (albeit in less abusive/crude language) in the thread and peaces out.

Hell of a contribution to the discussion, dude.
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My favorite part of my post was where I addressed all of those, wasn't it yours? Or was it the part where I ADDRESSED THE TWO PEOPLE GIVING STUPID ADVICE?

You can ramble on all you'd like, man. Just go ahead and say that comparing a website's framework to a car's safety is moronic, isn't it? It is. So is telling somebody that they're going to get more business if they use CSS, isn't it? It is.

Then let's assume (based on the contents of the very first post) that my "hypothetical" (again, read the very first post... slowly. Done? Now again.) is true... What's the point of wasting his time by incessantly turning him away from what he knows and is, as we ALL KNOW, completely functional?

What are DIVs going to do that tables absolutely have no snowball's chance of accomplishing? Name it... Float? Now that's really going to stop somebody from laying out a table wireframe, right?

Gotta play captain save'em better than this, buddy.

But like I said, my original point.. Answer the dude's questions. He asked about SEO penalties for using HTML>CSS and cross-browser compatibility. Not about the pointless argument over web standards, which are all variable.
 
Do you honestly believe that repeating words like "stupid", "idiots" and "moronic" makes your arguments stronger? We are intelligent beings capable of understanding written speech. If your arguments are good, they will be accepted by those who see the truth in them.

I won't bother editing out the insulting parts, but I would appreciate it if you refrained from name-calling like
Most of the rest of you are fucking idiots.
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Everyone has the occasional bad day and needs to blow some steam off, but let 's try to keep the forum on a high standard.

Thank you.
 
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