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If google throws you in the sandbox

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by fad3r, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. fad3r

    fad3r Power Member

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    Does it show you anything in WMT? I have a site that should be number #1 but wont make any progress except dancing from 250 - 500. I have a feeling I am in the sandbox for building links on a new domain too quickly. How long does the sandbox last and will WMT send you a message about it?
     
  2. assphuck

    assphuck Senior Member

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    I don't believe in the sandbox. If you see anything in WMT, chances are it would be a manual action and not algorithmic. At least that's what Google has stated.

    Many people are noting that Google is taking forever to update ranks based on new links found. You probably fall into this category. But I can tell you that a < week old site I launched has been dancing from nowhere to #5 for its primary keyword the last two days. I'm hitting it balls to the wall, as a test case, to see if I can actually get it penalized. If I can, then my imagination shall run wild. :D
     
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  3. fad3r

    fad3r Power Member

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    Thanks for the response. Always read your posts because it seems like you know wtf ur talking about. So you think link velocity is bullshit? The site was new and I probably built 2000 links in 3 weeks to it. Not really spammy links for the most part.

    Also I thought the whole unnatural link building penalty was algorithmic. So what you are saying is if you get hit by an algorithmic penalty that it wont actually show up in WMT? Pardon my retardedness I am new to WMT I only installed it on Tuesday
     
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  4. assphuck

    assphuck Senior Member

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    Link velocity certainly is one of the signals that Google uses to trust and ultimately rank a site. But more important than velocity is how those links are discovered, which I believe also factors into trust. For example, if you sent a ping out to each of the 3,000 backlinks you built it would appear suspicious and devalue those links temporarily. I feel the same about RSS feeds or blasting entire tiers with one specific type of links (profiles, wikis, etc.). Ideally you want the links to be discovered naturally, which in today's world is a link pointing to your new link from the same domain it resides on. The fewer the footprints the better.

    Assuming your backlinks are found naturally, the time it takes for Google to discover them will surely be spread out and reduce any impacts regarding velocity. For velocity to be a factor, there must be a baseline for analysis. New domains do not have comparable trends which can be algorithmically analyzed, which is why many suspect that a sandbox period exists. The sandbox does not exist as I've ranked sites in less than a month. What does exist are common mistakes that people make in building links that gets them into trouble and is counterproductive to achieving their goals.

    Originally when the unnatural link warning issue was discussed it was believed that it was an algorithmic generated notice. Matt Cutts followed up after his initial interview and noted that 99% of the warnings that appear in WMT result from manual actions. Read this page for more information and the follow up that Matt Cutts made:

    The warnings in WMT are pretty much all related to manual actions taken against a site. Will they expire, and how long will it take? That is the million dollar question. I assume it depends on the severity of the case. Many believe that aggressive link building penalties will expire within six months. My experience indicates it's around 90 days, but once again no two penalties are alike as the severity of each case can vary. And I assume Google will base the severity and length of the penalty on a case by case basis.

    I have recovered sites that received the unnatural link warnings by building more links using raw URLs, Domain.com and domain.com as the anchors. In fact, the unnatural link warnings disappeared in WMT within a day or two. Some sites that I have performed this same technique on have not recovered in the same fashion, but none carry the unnatural link warning they received. The reason why those sites did not recover is likely due to the fact that they are still over-optimized beyond my desire to re-backlink all pages with normal anchors or that an expiration on the penalty was manually specified by Google regardless of what actions I took to clean up the damage.

    I recently 404'ed nearly every page on a site that I backlinked, except for the homepage, and have seen no results from that action. In fact, I have experienced a loss in traffic as my ranks dropped in Bing/Yahoo. Therefore, this is not an action I would recommend others use. Thankfully I have many frontline websites which I can test. If the sites burn, the income lost is negligible.

    Some may see some sorts of rank fluctuations over the next couple of weeks as Panda fully rolls out in Japan and Korea. This will likely devalue some of their backlinks and impact those sites which are linked from such domains. As Panda spreads throughout the world, similar fluctuations should be expected. And on this note, Google does devote a fair amount of computing power to these rollouts, which is why they are not rolling it out to the entire world. This may be one of the reasons why people are not seeing quick results from their link building efforts. But then again, Google may be taking a different approach and treating every backlink it finds as suspicious until such links pass a more thorough analysis to determine if they are organic.
     
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  5. fad3r

    fad3r Power Member

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    Mind blown. Thanks + rep (for whatever weakness it is. Check ur pms when you have a second)
     
  6. DynamicalD

    DynamicalD Newbie

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    Great bit of analysis there. Going from your profile pic. You're a lot smarter than you look mate:)
     
  7. williamk

    williamk BANNED BANNED

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    Superb explanation assphuck. I am really impressed with your detailed analysis :)
     
  8. edgematch

    edgematch Elite Member

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    +rep and thanks given.
     
  9. poweronics

    poweronics Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    A very realistic and to the point analysis. One of the best posts I have seen here at BHW.
     
  10. hounddomain

    hounddomain Newbie

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    + rep - had some info I didn't know.
     
  11. jacob8

    jacob8 Regular Member

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    @ assphuck - wow excellent information. My question is my site was on May 25,2012. I didn't receive any message on WMT. I don't really know what I did wrong to make my site ranking disappear.
    My site was ranking for some(10-12) keywords. My site is still index. When ever I upload new fresh content it get index within few hours. But no ranking.
    Can you help me out with this please.
     
  12. vroom

    vroom Newbie

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    I received the WMT notification for my site in April, still hasn't budged from top 1000 in rankings.
     
  13. seowulf

    seowulf Junior Member

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    If it's a new site, then it wound't be a sandbox, but more like ranking fluctuations/re-adjustments for a new website.

    Keep building links and you should come back within a week or two.
     
  14. assphuck

    assphuck Senior Member

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    By the date you noted, you were hit by Penguin 1.1. That is an algorithmic action that has negatively influenced your ranks. Since Penguin targets webspam, you will have to cleanup your onsite and offsite SEO. There's no need to file a reconsideration request after you perform the cleanup as Penguin is an algorithmic action.

    What does the Penguin cleanup consist of? That differs from site to site. You may have to delete some paid backlinks, introduce new backlinks with naked urls (domain.com, etc.) and/or reduce repetitive keyword usage on your site. Look around BHW as you will find a lot of information regarding this.

     
  15. Pilot

    Pilot Junior Member

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    Don't expect to see anything in WMT for anything like a "sandbox." Whether it not it exists is a debatable issue, but even if it does, Google doesn't let you know about it. WMT messages are more for a specific kind of link rather than sheer link velocity.
     
  16. shaggy93

    shaggy93 Senior Member

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    Nice Post assphuck + Rep given

    I have a question regarding website, Do check your PM!
     
  17. doubleup21

    doubleup21 Junior Member

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    I've recently received a bunch of unnatural links messages in the last few days, but haven't experienced any drop. Is anyone else experiencing this?