Idea for shitlist moderators

I am a new member here. And the next best thing thing I like after Blackhat methods and Trolls is the 'Shitlist' section. It's an awesome work to do, and it's done awesomely by MODs (Especially OldSalt).

I thought of an idea that can help MODs to solve the cases easily. It is - The accused member should deposit the "Total money paid by the accuser". This way MODs can easily find if the accused member wants to help solve the case or he is just somehow wasting time and trying his luck. It usually takes weeks to reach a decision, this way MODs can be sure that the justice is done after long judgment period.

Another one could be MODs should take a percent of the amount, after all they are fighting like a lawyer for both 'accuser' and 'accused' and themselves are IMer.

These are just ideas that came to my mind.

Are you talking about escrow? Money kept in neutral account until job done?

spmcnerd said:

Are you talking about escrow? Money kept in neutral account until job done?

Click to expand...

Yup, sort of like escrow and keeping it in neutral account. Or the money could be sent to for example MODs paypal account.

sounds like a good idea, but probably quite hard to implement that. And you would probably get the same problems and delaying by both parties, but there would be even more ownus on the mod to handle it and collect the money = greater workload, so I don't know if it would work.

This could work for one time purchases, but for servcies/software in the BST it would be a pain as there are hundreds of trades everyday.

I think of a few suggestions for the shitlist but for a start there should be a minimum amount of money involved before you open a shitlist. About time people realised that Oldsalt and Jazzc's time is valuable. Oldsalt is currently presiding over another $4 dispute which will take up a week of his time.

People say "if they pull a scam for $4 then they will do it for $400", well theres some truth in that but if you get shilled for short change you should consider that "internet tax" you pay internet tax on small amounts so that when the day comes to spend some actual money you will turn your brain on and be alert to what you are doing.

Similar ideas have been suggested before OP but they are just too impractical for a forum like this.

Much better if people followed the rules, didn't deal with members with very low post counts/new, didn't deal with people through random PM's, didn't fall for the "too good to be true" threads and used their common sense and judgement.

davids355 said:

sounds like a good idea, but probably quite hard to implement that. And you would probably get the same problems and delaying by both parties, but there would be even more ownus on the mod to handle it and collect the money = greater workload, so I don't know if it would work.

Click to expand...

Thoguh it might take the same time, but we will know whether after the final decision accused member will pay or not. In several cases I saw it took weeks for the process to get completed. And ultimately the accused member didn't pay up.

This way those loads of scammers will be excluded in the beginning itself.

Duffers5000 said:

I think of a few suggestions for the shitlist but for a start there should be a minimum amount of money involved before you open a shitlist. About time people realised that Oldsalt and Jazzc's time is valuable. Oldsalt is currently presiding over another $4 dispute which will take up a week of his time.

People say "if they pull a scam for $4 then they will do it for $400", well theres some truth in that but if you get shilled for short change you should consider that "internet tax" you pay internet tax on small amounts so that when the day comes to spend some actual money you will turn your brain on and be alert to what you are doing.

Click to expand...

Yup, there can be a limit on for minimum amount the shitlist can be posted, and MODs deserve to get the fraction of disputed amount.

W130SN said:

Similar ideas have been suggested before OP but they are just too impractical for a forum like this.

Much better if people followed the rules, didn't deal with members with very low post counts/new, didn't deal with people through random PM's, didn't fall for the "too good to be true" threads and used their common sense and judgement.

Click to expand...

There are fewer cases of shitlist from newer members, and more cases are from jr. vip's or reputable members.

The current process can continue as it is for small dispute of few dollars. For disputes ranging from few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars, this can work well. And MOD can take a cut. Damn, they are working too hard for quarrels over $5, and are doing a job a normal person can't do, so something needs to be done to lift the burden of their head.

Still if this has already been posted, I guess it won't be of much use.

I guess what MODs have to say on this?

Nice thought, but I highly doubt it would be implemented.

It just opens up another can of worms in addition to the dispute.

Thank you for your well-intended idea though.

"Wiz"

Mods really deserve the fraction amount for taking their time and hardwork.
But the amount to be shitlisted always varies from case to case.
Asking a fraction for a scam of 10$ would be nothing.
I don't see if this would work out practically.

Duffers5000 said:

I think of a few suggestions for the shitlist but for a start there should be a minimum amount of money involved before you open a shitlist. About time people realised that Oldsalt and Jazzc's time is valuable. Oldsalt is currently presiding over another $4 dispute which will take up a week of his time.

People say "if they pull a scam for $4 then they will do it for $400", well theres some truth in that but if you get shilled for short change you should consider that "internet tax" you pay internet tax on small amounts so that when the day comes to spend some actual money you will turn your brain on and be alert to what you are doing.

Click to expand...

To an extent I agree with you Duffers and I like the idea of writing off a small loss as Internet Tax lol

Unfortunately the small time scammers are the worst as they rip off many more people.
I bet there are many people who wouldn't be bothered to create a Shitlist for a $1-$100 loss and that is what the scammiers hope for and prey on.

The bigger the scam the easier it is to spot.

shravandude said:

Mods really deserve the fraction amount for taking their time and hardwork.
But the amount to be shitlisted always varies from case to case.
Asking a fraction for a scam of 10$ would be nothing.
I don't see if this would work out practically.

Click to expand...

Another thing to consider is the fact that we (the mods) would likely
be under scrutiny for going against the accused individual, since there
would be the incentive of a monetary gain for us.

Credibility is EVERYTHING when you are a mod on BHW, and we would
not want to be involved in something that might cause any doubts or
suspicion in regards to our credibilty.

The small time scammers just run away and come back next week. I think the forum has an onus to protect members who have bought through an approved BST but these guys that pop up every day who spent $15 with some newbie to code a bot really need to own their loss and live with it.

Anyway trying to get money out of someone after a dispute is running wont happen. What could happen is that sellers can put a holding deposit guarantee on their BST thread so the thread could be advertised as

Bronze Assured: This seller has Allocated $100 towards resolving any disputes associated with sales from this thread
Silver Assured: This seller has Allocated $500 towards resolving any disputes associated with sales from this thread
Gold Assured: This seller has Allocated $1000 towards resolving any disputes associated with sales from this thread

Rough figures but just an idea. If I was a serious seller I would be happy to add an assurance as a sales tool for my service.

W130SN said:

To an extent I agree with you Duffers and I like the idea of writing off a small loss as Internet Tax lol

Unfortunately the small time scammers are the worst as they rip off many more people.
I bet there are many people who wouldn't be bothered to create a Shitlist for a $1-$100 loss and that is what the scammiers hope for and prey on.

The bigger the scam the easier it is to spot.

Click to expand...

Duffers5000 said:

The small time scammers just run away and come back next week. I think the forum has an onus to protect members who have bought through an approved BST but these guys that pop up every day who spent $15 with some newbie to code a bot really need to own their loss and live with it.

Anyway trying to get money out of someone after a dispute is running wont happen. What could happen is that sellers can put a holding deposit guarantee on their BST thread so the thread could be advertised as

Bronze Assured: This seller has Allocated $100 towards resolving any disputes associated with sales from this thread
Silver Assured: This seller has Allocated $500 towards resolving any disputes associated with sales from this thread
Gold Assured: This seller has Allocated $1000 towards resolving any disputes associated with sales from this thread

Rough figures but just an idea. If I was a serious seller I would be happy to add an assurance as a sales tool for my service.

Click to expand...

I like the idea.

The cost of the Sales thread should also reflect what is being sold.
That way it would stop somebody from offering a $730000 return on an investment of $10000

WizGizmo said:

Another thing to consider is the fact that we (the mods) would likely
be under scrutiny for going against the accused individual, since there
would be the incentive of a monetary gain for us.

Credibility is EVERYTHING when you are a mod on BHW, and we would
not want to be involved in something that might cause any doubts or
suspicion in regards to our credibilty.

Click to expand...

Seriously! The day MODs come under scanner, it would be the day before the internet ends. All the real members here know how hard you guys work to keep forum clean.

I guess once the dispute has been solved the accuser won't mind sharing a bit with MOD.

Still, you do have some point, there are more haters than supporters of these new things.

IMO, until there are in/virtual services being purchased, there shall always be the huge risk of Paypal being helpless in providing you any assistance in getting your money back. Think on those lines, i.e., ...

... How to get over that limitation? If a suitable solution is found and implemented, then the sellers may not be able to scam so fearlessly. (S)he will know that the virtual/intangible sale cover now has no protection for him from PP. Paypal to will be able to give buyers that additional protection.

The one who finds this solution will be put on a pedestal by all buyers of intangible/virtual items.

good idea.. but what would happen to the escrow $ IF the database was hacked? like what happened to SR.. who would be at fault?

Do your business right and cover your ass and you won't need to be worrying about shitlist or scams.

The issue here isn't that suppliers wouldn't want to cover their potential losses due to an accuser, as I know many suppliers here on BHW would gladly stake their entire income to retain their reputation, but rather that it puts a huge amount more pressure on the moderating team - especially where there is potential for issues on their part.

Currently, worst comes to worst, a moderator can overlook a piece of information not clearly presented to them, potentially come to the wrong conclusion and issue a ban - which can be retracted easily at a later date when the correct information comes to light.

With this system, it opens up far more issues.
Eg, what happens if a moderator is hacked and someone drains their entire escrow account? How do we know the moderators are being impartial if there is potential for monetary gain if they rule against the supplier? What do we do if the moderator comes to the wrong conclusion, refunds the accuser themselves from the escrow account then new information comes to light - they can't force the accuser to pay it back?

EDIT: Personally, I'd feel somewhat cagey about handling anything in the region of $XX,XXX in escrow for close friends, as a one off. Let alone the pressure of handling an escrow account with $XX,XXX passing through it on a monthly basis - personally I don't think that's fair pressure to put on the moderators.

Interesting thread...

I think charging for a marketplace thread and then charging per transaction could be a bit hefty, but I do see the pro's to the suggestion. Although instead of the money going to staff, it could just go into a 'pot' for BHW meetups, competitions or something that can benefit the forum directly. So, what goes in, comes out, make it a positive thing, not a drain on everyones finance or something people aim to avoid using. There could maybe even be a live counter that shows how much money is in the pot for 'x' meetup or 'x' competition. Maybe even Jr VIP+ only competitions could be an idea. What the money will be used for could be taken to a poll and then if people vote for staff to get it one week/month, then that's up to you guys.

I dunno, just chucking ideas out there, but we would have to assess workload and make sure that it wouldn't take over too much with disputes etc, so if both don't agree for the transfer to go through, the mod/staff member could just put in sh*tlist if it can't be worked out or something. Again, more workload, but has potential for a lot of benefit to come out I think. It's a forum for YOU guys as members, so it's something that if wanted by enough people, we would naturally at least consider options and look at what could be done.

I will be watching this thread, I'm intrigued to get a few more thoughts/ideas and see what else people throw into the ring.