I need people's advice - Hiring Developers in Other Countries

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Just be careful when dealing with ukrainians ! there was a thread here about a member who had his $100K project stolen or something like that I cant' find the thread right now anyways as long as I remember the developer become so greedy and end up threatening him to sell the source code if he doesn't pay him what he want ,I'm not sure how it ended though but you should learn from it.
Good Luck
 
splishsplash said:
Hey guys,

I don't often ask for help on here. I usually give more than I take, but I'm really in need of some good advice here.

I need to find out how I should be offering for monthly salaries to find developers in various countries.

Specifically right now I'm looking more for a frontend wordpress developer. Intermediate php/javascript. The ability to customize themes. Fluent English.

In the UK for someone like that I would pay around $2500 to $3200/month. Jr wordpress frontend developer. About 2 years experience kind of level.

That's pretty expensive since this is going to be for building pbns. I generally allocate about 1 full day per site since I like a good polished design. At a push 2 in a day, so assuming about 20 per month, $3k would be $150 per pbn design. Not hugely profitable, and on a $200 domain when you factor in content that's almost doubling my costs. Fine for a $700 domain, but $100-$400, no.

Upwork isn't a great place to look, as everyone seems to just put high hourly rates. The americans on there are listing like $100/hr+ in some cases. Only TOP developers are going to command that, and if you're that good, you aren't on upwork. Google's average dev salaries are $80k to $220k, average being $120k. $100/hr puts you at the high end of Google's salaries. Even the low-end guys on upwork are charging $10-$20/hr.

I found jobrack.eu which looks good.

I can see some jobs paying $700-$1000/mo for frontend developers.

I would really appreciate some advice about what I should actually be offering for a monthly salary for different countries. Ie, we have Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Latvia.

Advice on which countries are good/practical for finding developers and where I can find developers for different countries.

From my current research it seems that eastern europe is good for developers.

Also. I'm not hiring anyone from blackhatworld. I don't like to get my developers from places where people are learning to make money/seo. I want someone more neutral and not someone who could be learning how my pbn works to setup their own. Please don't pm me asking for a job.
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I'm not sure if this helps or not, but I'll be honest-- you need to either increase your rates or lower your expectations. Hiring good devs has gotten much more difficult over the last 5 years. Google doesn't pay $80k to $220k-- they pay $150k - $300k (maybe up to $600k if you have very special skills). Obviously you aren't competing with them, just pointing this out because I think your reference may be off base.

I have good experiences with Eastern European developers (Belarus in particular), but you can't necessarily expect creativity.

I would try this approach: Figure out where students in Eastern European countries apply for jobs and post there--- a UK intern would be too expensive but I am sure a Polish intern would not be. Many would love to show that they worked for a UK company.

You might also look into Venezuela. People are happy to work for bitcoin at very good rates due to the situation there. But I find workers aren't as reliable as Eastern Europe.

Please let me know what works for you. I think Eastern European interns are your best bet.
 
Mr Positive said:
It’s difficult to give you a fix amount as it’ll vary on that persons experience, his commitment to your project. I would have suggested you some of the best people i know on BHW for this but since you have ruled them out very difficult to offer suggestions, but I would advise you to begin pay at lower amounts, see their skills, then slowly and slowly raise it up. Mak them sign a NDA too, and have a proper contract in place
Click to expand...

Hi dude
How do you make a deal when you find a talented guy?
hourly or project based?
 
regensteiner said:
I'm not sure if this helps or not, but I'll be honest-- you need to either increase your rates or lower your expectations. Hiring good devs has gotten much more difficult over the last 5 years. Google doesn't pay $80k to $220k-- they pay $150k - $300k (maybe up to $600k if you have very special skills). Obviously you aren't competing with them, just pointing this out because I think your reference may be off base.

I have good experiences with Eastern European developers (Belarus in particular), but you can't necessarily expect creativity.

I would try this approach: Figure out where students in Eastern European countries apply for jobs and post there--- a UK intern would be too expensive but I am sure a Polish intern would not be. Many would love to show that they worked for a UK company.

You might also look into Venezuela. People are happy to work for bitcoin at very good rates due to the situation there. But I find workers aren't as reliable as Eastern Europe.

Please let me know what works for you. I think Eastern European interns are your best bet.
Click to expand...


Hiring good devs is easy. Hiring great devs is hard. $300k is only for the top 1% guys.

Even $150k-$200k is a top 3% dev easily.

Most developer jobs are $50k to $100k.

Here you go - https://www.google.com/search?q=london+python+programmer&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB906GB906&oq=london+python+programmer&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l6j69i60.2887j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVj-W4hZbqAhUGXMAKHToRBWcQp4wCMAF6BAgNEAE#htidocid=_ygRfDIuFDMeLFliAAAAAA==

London, python £35k-£45k.

London, python £45k https://www.google.com/search?q=london+python+programmer&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB906GB906&oq=london+python+programmer&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l6j69i60.2887j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVj-W4hZbqAhUGXMAKHToRBWcQp4wCMAF6BAgNEAE#htidocid=frpuPRvxL2naXrPEAAAAAA==&htivrt=jobs&fpstate=tldetail

Financial companies pay more, as they always have. - https://www.google.com/search?q=london+python+programmer&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB906GB906&oq=london+python+programmer&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l6j69i60.2887j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVj-W4hZbqAhUGXMAKHToRBWcQp4wCMAF6BAgNEAE#htidocid=NMFMqqvHKUwPAZ7GAAAAAA==&htivrt=jobs&fpstate=tldetail
£95-£100k. But you'll work 60 hours a week so it's not that great.

Senior python london - £65k-£75k - https://www.google.com/search?q=london+python+programmer&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB906GB906&oq=london+python+programmer&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l6j69i60.2887j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVj-W4hZbqAhUGXMAKHToRBWcQp4wCMAF6BAgNEAE#htidocid=Tj3MCfe2dbPzp7jXAAAAAA==&htivrt=jobs&fpstate=tldetail


Google will pay $150k starting salary for their senior backend guys, yes. But those are the top 0.5%

Let's look at NYC.

php developer - $45k-$50k - https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+php+developer&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB906GB906&oq=london+python+programmer&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l6j69i60.2887j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVj-W4hZbqAhUGXMAKHToRBWcQp4wCMAF6BAgNEAE#fpstate=tldetail&htivrt=jobs&htidocid=m00knsicUBOgn2bcAAAAAA==

php - $55k to $80k - https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+php+developer&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB906GB906&oq=london+python+programmer&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l6j69i60.2887j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVj-W4hZbqAhUGXMAKHToRBWcQp4wCMAF6BAgNEAE#fpstate=tldetail&htivrt=jobs&htidocid=kgvLm2TiI_RQu1dYAAAAAA==

And they want a full stack developer.

$55k is $4500/mo

If you can get a full stack, 3-5 years of experience php developer in NYC for $4500, then I don't think it's a stretch to want someone in eastern europe to setup some wordpress themes, design a logo, tweak the odd line of code for layout. This is SUPER basic stuff. Jr level. We're talking a basic wordpress guy who can tweak a bit of php, tweak layouts, slap together a decent logo. It's not even plugin writing, which is SUPER easy stuff compared with full MVC full stack application development. Intermediate javascript is pretty basic stuff.. That's just the ability to tweak a few things here and there in javascript.

Yes, if you want a great developer to lead the dev team at your cutting edge SaaS company, you need to pay $200k/year or more. For a guy to build some pbns and make them look unique, $800-$1000/mo is a reasonable expectation. :)

It just depends on the country. Serbia seems very good. Poland/Estonia are good, but it's more like $1200-$2000 there for what you'd get for $3000-$4500 in the UK.
 
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Doctor Sleep said:
You can find it in Macedonia..

I`m not a developer but can help you to connect you with some of them
Click to expand...

That would be very much appreciated.

Feel free to add me on skype: thomas.belfort.me
 
Everytime I hired someone abroad, I ended up having to ask for my money back.
I would say hire the guy in the UK (where I guess you're located). Now that the job market has crashed, prices for everything is lower. I would take that opportunity to get amazing deals for what you need, I'm sure a lot of devs will be super happy to get an extra grand in this time of uncertainty.
 
Take a look at Colombia and Venezuela. Good educational systems and high levels of English. Venezuela is a shit show right now so good workers can be found very affordable. Colombia has a higher level of stability but their currency took a hit with COVID and was trending down before COVID. In Bogota, many of the larger consultancy companies (EY, Pricewater Coopers, and Deloitte) are starting developers at around $1,000 US.
 
Doctor Sleep said:
I already added you, I need you for something other, but will speak about this too..
Click to expand...

No worries. I'll be on tomorrow. I only pop on skype every 2-3 days generally. Distracts a lot from work. I like to be able to focus :-)
 
splishsplash said:
Hey guys,

I don't often ask for help on here. I usually give more than I take, but I'm really in need of some good advice here.

I need to find out how I should be offering for monthly salaries to find developers in various countries.

Specifically right now I'm looking more for a frontend wordpress developer. Intermediate php/javascript. The ability to customize themes. Fluent English.

In the UK for someone like that I would pay around $2500 to $3200/month. Jr wordpress frontend developer. About 2 years experience kind of level.

That's pretty expensive since this is going to be for building pbns. I generally allocate about 1 full day per site since I like a good polished design. At a push 2 in a day, so assuming about 20 per month, $3k would be $150 per pbn design. Not hugely profitable, and on a $200 domain when you factor in content that's almost doubling my costs. Fine for a $700 domain, but $100-$400, no.

Upwork isn't a great place to look, as everyone seems to just put high hourly rates. The americans on there are listing like $100/hr+ in some cases. Only TOP developers are going to command that, and if you're that good, you aren't on upwork. Google's average dev salaries are $80k to $220k, average being $120k. $100/hr puts you at the high end of Google's salaries. Even the low-end guys on upwork are charging $10-$20/hr.

I found jobrack.eu which looks good.

I can see some jobs paying $700-$1000/mo for frontend developers.

I would really appreciate some advice about what I should actually be offering for a monthly salary for different countries. Ie, we have Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Latvia.

Advice on which countries are good/practical for finding developers and where I can find developers for different countries.

From my current research it seems that eastern europe is good for developers.

Also. I'm not hiring anyone from blackhatworld. I don't like to get my developers from places where people are learning to make money/seo. I want someone more neutral and not someone who could be learning how my pbn works to setup their own. Please don't pm me asking for a job.
Click to expand...
There are lots of websites from which you can choose freelancers for you.. they all know how to work as you can easily hire them without any worry..
 
I, unfortunately, don't know the specific answer to your question.

However, on Upwork, try posting a job and see if you get any decent proposals.

People post ridiculously high fees per hour, struggle for gigs and will just apply for any jobs they can get, at least that's what I've found hiring content writers. I hire writers that are $15/p hour for $0.7/p 100 words.
 
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