I have 217 BTC, what do I do with them?
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Nw_Work
Senior Member
- Nov 23, 2019
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This a good idea but to add to it maybe get capital gains in btc and once want the profits convert to stable coins and then take loan else u can get screwed over by market and the loan you took out
- Jun 16, 2022
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For serious answers, you have to post a serious question first. If you really have that many bitcoins, you should start multiple businesses.
Ae888_review
Newbie
- Jul 19, 2023
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What would you do with a value like this for 1 B
fbcryptoads
Banned - Selling via PM
- Feb 23, 2024
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Send me 1 BTC here .
1BAtwfQkzLD4pdGkgj9VJy4AASeAGdec6L
After that i will tell you what to do!
1BAtwfQkzLD4pdGkgj9VJy4AASeAGdec6L
After that i will tell you what to do!
semanticgrowth
Regular Member
- Mar 4, 2024
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Like seriously
- Oct 9, 2013
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You only get screwed if your loan to asset ratio is too high, OR, if you don't have enough assets.
If you've got 20 bitcoin, and you take out a loan for 2 bitcoin, you are NEVER losing your bitcoin.
If you have 2 bitcoin, and you take out a loan with the 2 bitcoin, yes, you're playing with fire.
Plus, what you're also missing is that bitcoin is more volatile today. It won't be like that in 10 years. With each cycle it actually gets more stable.
The 2013 high was $1240.
2017: $17249
2021: $69000
That's a 14x from 2013 to 2017 and a 4x from 2017 to 2021.
Drops from 2013 was around 85%
2017 was about 82%
2021 was 77%
The other things to notice is:
post-2013 lows was jan 2015 to oct 2015. Peak was 5 minutes. lol.
2017 peak was similarly quick, but the low was only 25 nov 2018 to feb 5 2019. really 2.5 months.
2021 peak was VERY LONG.
It was basically Feb 2021 to Nov 2021, and it only dropped to $35k-$45k and held for until April 2022.
There was a mid bull drop to $29k but it went back up even higher and that was more of a black swan event caused by covid, regulations and other major news. The fact it recovered after this showed how what's really happened with it.
Then the 2021 dip was a minute. So we've reversed from the peaks being a minute, and the dips being LONG, to the peaks being LONG and the dips being a minute.
You had 6 weeks to get bitcoin sub $20k.
Even the $20k-$25k was only 6 months, including the 6 weeks of sub $20k. There was really not much time to get it low.
It was $30k in June 2022 and wasback at $30k by March 2023.
That's VERY strong. That means it maintained almost 50% of its peak other than a 9 month period, and without the FTX fiasco we wouldn't have seen a $15k bitcoin, or a drop for so long.
By 2035 you're not going to see more than 30-40% drops between peaks, and 30-40% in 2035 would be very short lived with people eating it up.
So it'll be an incredibly secure asset to take loans against.
Even now, it's FINE as long as you don't take a bitcoin loan during a bull like an idiot, or you don't take a loan with ALL your bitcoin.
From last bull to lowest was only a 4.3x drop, so if you took a loan with 1 of your bitcoin at the PEAK of the bull, with a loan to asset ratio of 0.4 then when it dropped to $27600 you'd get margin called and need to supply more bitcoin. With a 0.4 ratio at the lowest of $16k you'd need to put up 1.725 bitcoin. So even if you had only TWO bitcoin, and were a complete idiot taking your loan at $69k, then you'd still survive with room to spare.
And if you did somehow manage to lose it? Well, you got $27600 cash. What did you do with the cash? I hope you made a good ROI from it.
If not, and you still had it, then you'd be able to buy 1.725 bitcoin at $16k.
So worst case, you are not going to lose that much. If it drops so hard you do get margin called and can't supply more collateral, then great, because bitcoin is so low now you can buy a ton.
Realistically, you take loans in bear markets where it's already low. So you'd have taken a bitcoin loan when it was $20k-$30k you're ultra safe.
Nw_Work
Senior Member
- Nov 23, 2019
- 906
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But I think you forgot your initial suggestion which was don't sell BTC take loan and buy house, so then risk wise still high since person has to make interest payments for loan ongoing+loan capital repayment, hope don't get margin called and hope BTC is stable and doesn't face huge sell off leading to liquidation....
- Oct 9, 2013
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Yeah but you're not selling your bitcoin. They just hold it as collateral.
The loan capital repayment is not an issue..
Remember, this isn't meant for someone who has 1-2 bitcoin and wants a big loan from all their bitcoin to buy something stupid.
This is for when you have 20 bitcoin, and bitcoin is worth $80k at the bottom(ie 2026).
You take a loan with 2 bitcoin and you get 0.4 * $80k * 2 = $64k.
1 year later(2027) bitcoin will be worth, let's say $110k-$120k
How do you pay back that $80k?
0.4 * $120k * x = $64k
x = 64k / 0.4*120k
x = 1.33
You take another loan and send 1.3 of your remaining 18 bitcoin.
You get $64k.
You pay back the principle and get back your 2 bitcoin.
You've now got 18.67 bitcoin.
You repeat this every year.
In 50 years you get a loan for $64k, and you send 0.01 bitcoin.
Make sense?
You never pay tax.
You never give up your bitcoin.
You never have to pay back the principle.
The only thing you pay is the interest, which you do from your income.
Right now the interest is 15%, but in a few years when you'd start this you'll be able to get it for 5-8% from institutions.
You don't NEED it now, this is for when you've spent 10 years building up your bitcoin and you have the question "Ok, now what?"
5% of $64k is only $3200 per year, or $266 per month.
BUT REMEMBER!
You are NOT taking bitcoin loans to buy a car, or a TV or some other "consumer item".
Otherwise you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of interest for that TV or car, which doesn't make sense.
The loan is NOT because you can't afford something. That's not how rich people use loans.
The loan is TO MAKE MONEY.
This is how the wealthy get wealthier. They DO NOT SELL ASSETS EVER.
They accumulate assets over their lifetime.
You have $200 million of bitcoin. Great. That bitcoin doesn't make you any money. It's just a store of value.
Want to buy a business that costs $10 million?
Don't sell $10 million of bitcoin.
Take a loan with 5% * 1/0.4 = 12.5% of your bitcoin. (That's a 40% loan to asset ratio)
Pay $500k in interest over year 1.
But what does that business you bought for $10 mil make?
A good business sells for about 3-6x EBIDTA depending on different factors, so that business should make $3 mil profit per year at about 3.3x EBIDTA.
Loan interest payments: $41.6k/month
Business profit: $250,000k per month
Total profit: $208.40k per month.
Total assets - $200 million + $10 million = $210 million
Total liabilities - $10.5 million
Current net worth = $199.5 million
Current income = $2.5 million net per year
Old net worth = $200 million
Old income = $0
You've given up half a mil net worth for $2.5 mil per year income.
End of year 1
---------------------
Buy $2.5 million of bitcoin, or $2 million and use the $500k for your lifestyle expenses.
Current net worth = $201.5 million
Liabilities = $10 million
Take another bitcoin loan. Bitcoin has gone up 30%..
This time you send 77% of the bitcoin you sent last time.
You get $10 million. You pay back the last loan, you get your full bitcoin back.
You now have 30% of last year's bitcoin used as collateral back. So if last year you had to give 10 bitcoin, this year you only had to give 7.7
Ie you have 2.3 more bitcoin. 2.3 / 7.7 = 0.3 = 30%
You will have these interest payments to pay forever..
But
The business makes $3 mil a year in profit. Your interest is $500k. The interest is IRRELEVANT.
Every year you're gaining $2.5 mil in cash and your collateral of bitcoin reduces by 30% each year.
Assuming 30% per year for 10 years(Which it will be, although it'll slow down eventually to 10-15%)
100 * 0.7**10
100% is your original amount
0.7 is what you need to put up each year for the same seed capital.
10 is the number of years
100 * 0.7**10 = 2.82
So in 10 years, you need to put up 2.82% of your initial bitcoin, to get $10 mil, assuming 30% year on year(which it's done since 2011)
If it dropped to 10%, that would be
100 * 0.9**10 = 34.87% in 10 years. Still great.
Even 5% is 100 * 0.95**10 = 59.87%
The only difference is the higher the holding asset grows, the quicker you get it back allowing you to use more of it for loans.
That is what wealthy people do to grow their wealth.
And to be more specific, they don't finance fully 100%. What they do is finance 20-30% and get a bank to give them a cheap loan for the rest, so they use EVEN LESS of their own capital and the only downside is a little less profit each year. The bank loan will be paid back in full, but over a long term up to 25 years. Depends on the business. Bank will accept if the business is in an industry they think will last for a long time, the managementent are capable, the owner is self-financing part of it, and the owner has capital to cover it. All these factors allow the wealthy to get loans at super low interest rates over very long terms.
The bank is happy because it makes more money with a 25 year loan, getting a few % each year, and the buyer is happy because paying off the loan now becomes only a small chunk of the profit. Ie, if you self financed $3 mil with your own bitcoin loan, and took a $7 mil loan at 5% over 25 years that would be $500k-$600k per year in loan repayments each year.
They now used even less of their bitcoin, so they can do 3 deals like that, potentially buying and merging 3 companies in the same industry, and their payments per business would be $500k-$600k for bank loan + $160k for their bitcoin loan interest. Total of about $600k-$700k per year out of $3mil per year profit.
They could even leverage that business by taking out another loan against either the assets in the business or future income, although the more you leverage the higher the risk. The wealthier the person, the less risk they will take. Billionaires don't take much risk. Millionaires take risk. Deca millionaires take some risk. Billionaires are just looking to make a low risk few % per year mostly. Obviously there's exceptions as some people worth $2b-$3b want to keep going big, but that's not the norm. Most of the money in the world at $50m to $5 bil is just looking for low risk returns/maintenance for future generations.
Hope you found that useful
professors07
BANNED
- Feb 19, 2024
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Best Of Luck
- Mar 21, 2013
- 24,780
- 31,549
It's far more real than what we call real money
In fact you can probably stake it for huge passive income
OccultKingdoms
BANNED
- Mar 11, 2013
- 5,542
- 9,750
Oh god, loan manipulation will be the top skill soon
Prepare your business asses
@splishsplash like for the effort
Prepare your business asses
@splishsplash like for the effort
code API
BANNED - Failed to resolve a dispute
- Oct 20, 2018
- 6,377
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- Oct 9, 2013
- 3,471
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Why?
Who are you? Why should anyone just send you money.
Why are you more deserving than any of the other 7.8 billion people on earth?
If you were the last person on earth with me, sure, I'd give you 0.5 bitcoin, or food, or whatever else we had.
But there's a lot of people here.
What makes this shitty is that by asking someone to change your life, you're essentially saying "Don't give to any of the other 7.8 billion people on earth. I'm better. I'm more deserving. Give to me. Don't give to those children in need, or anyone else in need for that matter"
And 0.5? Jesus. You're asking for $35k? Get a grip. Get a job.
Member Agc
Junior Member
- Nov 28, 2022
- 179
- 59
I think you should invest in something, maybe apartments, because there will be a lot of demand from young people to buy and rent apartments.
OccultKingdoms
BANNED
- Mar 11, 2013
- 5,542
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Yeah. Get a grip. IM is not for you. Not yet.
Maybe you'll need to emigrate to another country temporarily to get that $35k.
Little chance to make that with IM if you don't have that low net worth.
I tried. Even when I made something with IM, it wasn't enough to cover Everything. It was too much stress.
Anyone that knows basic English and can open their mouth can save $30k in a year. Just migrate to proper place and work there.
It's easier than IM with no money. Doing something that requires money without money is like hacking. Which isn't anytting pleasant. Especially when you have bills to pay
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