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I dont understand why anybody would do web design

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by nonai, Mar 18, 2015.

  1. nonai

    nonai Power Member

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    is web design worth it?
    I used to do it but I never got anywhere with it. This was my typical client:
    MILF is an artist and wants to make a website for her stupid projects. She wants this feature and that feature. She wants to call 100 times a day to make sure you are aware of all her stupid needs. she wants her website to be the best. she wants it to look like this other website, but not really.

    her budget? $300

    considering the amount of time it takes to grasp all the client's needs...it's just not worth it. usually they lose me half way through. they say "I need this, I need that. I want this color. I want this thing here. " meanwhile I am thinking about something else already.

    I want to just buy a theme for $50, put it up, maybe activate a couple of plugins, charge $1500. bye bye, no technical support, no phone calls, no meetings.
    is that possible?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  2. pxoxrxn

    pxoxrxn Supreme Member

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    That's your problem. You should be banging MILFs, not making websites for them.

    Go after the SMEs, they don't have time to call you all the time, they usually have cash to spend and they know what they want because they know that time is money.
     
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  3. GodsOwnWriter

    GodsOwnWriter Junior Member

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    I know people out there who really do that kinda work. :) Its possible.
     
  4. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Dude, when is this fantasy that you have clients going to end?
    Is that what your support workers call themselves, to humour you and persuade you to take your medicine?
    Your nonsense posts do make me chuckle though.
     
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  5. Zwielicht

    Zwielicht Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    That reminds me of my old web design client back in 2013! I even have a thread about her from 2013 here on Black Hat World: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/blackhat-lounge/627860-perfect-not-enough-client.html

    Good times.

    Anyway, I suggest that you don't short-change your clients by proving minimal services; do the amount of work that you're paid for. Also, learn how to create a web development contract that outlines the scope of the project to prevent your client from creating any unnecessary add-ons. A contract can mean the difference between doing $1500 worth of work for $1500 and doing $1500 worth of work for $500.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  6. DonnieBrasco

    DonnieBrasco Regular Member

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    Know this type of clients, unless you have some serious clients (what is pretty hard without a reputation and office) webdesign business is just pure headache.


    They want a function loaded website which would cost about 10-15.000$ in a design agency for their 300-400$ budget, then they want like a quadrillion revisions and also they think the ideas they have are able to realize (a round content area, which insane person would even request such things).


    I quit all that, if you want to hire at an design agency you end up with a lousy payday for the work you do (you bring in like 50-100k per month and they pay you 1,5k in my country).

    Just do webdesign for myself and friends of my family, i dont charge them so they dont have any expectations, just make a deal with them for example if they have a restaurant or sandwichbar that you get to eat the next 2 years for free.

    Clients are sometimes really fucked up in their heads, they spoiled this whole business for me.

    To have success online is also pretty hard, the competition is insanely high and also the skill level is on another planet.
     
  7. nonai

    nonai Power Member

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    so I read your old post. dude, you will never believe this but my MILF client also mentioned squarespace.
    pretty much whenever a milf approaches me about a project that sounds very personal to her (hair stylist, artist, photographer) I run like a mfer.
     
  8. nonai

    nonai Power Member

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    yeah, I agree with every point. it's so much fucking headache and they want sooo many revisions for $300.
    Dont even get me started on the ones that want to pay you "once the website starts making money"
     
  9. Zwielicht

    Zwielicht Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    I'm not surprised. Not all of the clients who want personal websites are bad (I'm even working with a couple of musicians right now), you just need to learn how to be assertive in the situation and charge the right price. As you may have learnt from my old thread:

    • Cheap prices attract cheap clients.
    • Never use a vague contract.
    • Be assertive.
    • Be careful who you work with.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  10. JCmcclain

    JCmcclain Junior Member

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    Something tells me you don't ever turn down a MILF, and neither does anyone else here
     
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  11. BreaknBrix

    BreaknBrix Power Member

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    OP u kidding man?

    Web design was the first thing I did after getting fired from my job more than 3 years ago. It is extremely profitable and the entire reason I grew the balls to get into local marketing and IM. A clients "neediness", imho.... it's a direct representation of your inability to sell.

    If you don't convey knowledge, expertise or intelligence.... a client will feel insecure about your skills and THATS when they become "needy" and insecure.

    I've had clients ask me to do some really stupid shit on their websites. And you know what I did 90% of the time? I told them, "no, I'm not doing that. here is why ____". I always turned them down based on results and conversions. "I'm not doing that cause your site won't convert. I've done enough split tests, read enough studies and if you wanna see them I'll gladly send them to you". The few clients who called my bluff I'd hand them a stack of 14 DVD's with more than 36 hours of worth seminars (eban pagan's 30 hour get altitude seminar, joe polish shit, dan kennedy, conversion optimization studies, copywriting pdfs, that long ass 38 powerpoint slide from marketingexperiments.com, etc). Then I'd tell them, "that's not free, I'm gonna need all those dvds back".

    Nearly every time I did this they'd give me the DVDs back and say, "ok, do the site however you think is best".

    And I would. I wouldn't just install some shitty theme and some plugins. At first I spent 1 week per website sometimes working 10-12 hours a day. I started off selling them for $500 then as the referrals came in I slowly rose my price between $800-$1500 per site. And I started doing 2 sites a week and getting them done in half the time.

    I got to a point in just a matter of months where I was booking people >>4 weeks in advance. I was so overwhelmed with work I made a thread on warrior forum giving leads away.

    Then I got a "top referral" from one of the alleged "best web designers" on WF. There were a bunch of old members vouching for this guy. He said he could do the sites for $300 each, that I didn't have to do any work and just needed to keep generating the leads. The first site I got back from this guy I said, "sorry, I won't be sending you anymore work". It was an absolute piece of shit and I couldn't believe this guy was recommended as "one of the best".

    Anyway, the point is.... I was clearing over $4k / month in a matter of 2 months. After just being fired from a job that paid $300 / week. I felt like a god at first making that much money which is why I busted my ass on every single site. Then towards the end, after 6 months or so of doing this shit I lost my mind and just snapped. I tried outsourcing to a bunch of different people but noone was capable or willing to do the quality of work I was doing for a low enough price. And after that I got into local lead generation ... then me and my brother eventually started our own local biz.

    But here is the craziest thing about this. It is now 2015. 3 years later. Just last month I got another web design referral from a painter who's site I did back in 2012. I never told his friend "no" so he's been calling me twice a week basically begging for me to do his site. And I may just do the site cause the guy is desperate as hell and also wants a funnel built. I can probably talk him up to $2k just to do the site and charge 2-3xs more for the funnel.

    Moral of the story, you asked "why would anyone ever do web design"?

    Answer = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    -BB
     
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  12. W9go

    W9go Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    sound interesting :)
     
  13. srb888

    srb888 Elite Member

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    It is very possible... show them the HiQ samples, market the work, tell them the rules -- your rules, and get the signature.

    Add visit charges too in case they are MILFs.
     
  14. King_James

    King_James Regular Member

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    If you just want to buy a theme for 50$, put it up, maybe activate a couple of plugin and charge 1500$ for it... then the market will get rid of you in no time. It is already doing that, your clients are insecure and needy because you are an amateur who just wants to rip off people, and not actually help them.

    Good luck with that. You should search for a 9-5 job.
     
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  15. nutserious

    nutserious Power Member

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    Interesting. I had a bad experience cold calling local business for web development service. Most of them weren't interested and would just stick to their Facebook fanpage.
     
  16. harleyquinn

    harleyquinn Newbie

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    OP, you can make good money doing web design. If your client only wants to spend $300, then buying a $50 theme and activating a few plugins is the way to go. However if they want a custom design with all the bells and whistles, you need to charge them accordingly. If they balk at your price after you send them a proposal then walk! The client isn't worth your time. I just recently charged a client $1k just to make changes to a site I designed a couple of years ago. I wouldn't have done the work for a penny less. The key is to get quality clients who understand the value of your work.
     
  17. Happyrobot

    Happyrobot Newbie

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    Speaking the truth. But it's a lot easier for clients now to find a low budget designer, especially with those sites like Fiverr.
     
  18. Conor

    Conor Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Lol.

    This is why you charge "after completion" rates. Having a client that wants a thousand extra changes isn't a bad thing. You just need to make them understand right from the start that they will have to pay for any work not included in the initial quote.
     
  19. nobodyelsein

    nobodyelsein Regular Member

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    IM is not a method or circumventing hard work, it's a method of working wiser and for more profit. If a client tells me they're going to go with someone based purely on price it's usually a warning sign that they won't be much fun to work with.

    It it takes balls to turn down little jobs, especially if you're starting out and need the money, but you'll find short-term 'loss' is long-term survival.
     
  20. nobodyelsein

    nobodyelsein Regular Member

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    Oh, and I've had client who left me because I was too expensive come back to me after heinous experiences with the cheap market.