I don't consider you a scripter if...

Now everyone's a scripter... Oh wait really?

g0g0l said:

Code:

https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-linux-apache-mysql-php-lamp-stack-on-ubuntu

Now everyone's a scripter... Oh wait really?

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Hah yeah, well, I mean, I'm not even expecting the ability to install from this guy, even though it is pretty simple. The job was regarding a website, not a basic server setup. I installed Apache, MySQL, PHP and a few others to get everything established. He just has to know FileZilla and how to login to MySQL via command line.

This specific coder was hired a while back, like 2013 I believe. We've been building the website for a while and have done tons of testing and new features and all was good until it was time to upload and create the databases. I haven't had this problem since, in my past 20 or whatever projects I've had done since this one. Just a one-off thing, but damn, such a simple skill to learn, like 10 minutes of reading.

Well I have seen and learned from many programmers in my career and many of them were/are not familiar with Servers. I myself wasn't familiar with server setups before I actually bought unmanaged hosting a few years back.

I could still code ^_^

IMHO, it is the ability to adopt to new technologies make you a better coder, but you do not necessarily need to know Linux to be called a coder (scripter huh? PHP's a general purpose programming language lol). I had the general knowledge on unix because I come from Computer Application background, but not all are as lucky.

macdonjo3 said:

Hah yeah, well, I mean, I'm not even expecting the ability to install but I would understand if you couldn't, even though it is pretty simple. The job was regarding a website, not a basic server setup. I installed Apache, MySQL, PHP and a few others to get everything established.

This specific coder was hired a while back, like 2013 I believe. We've been building the website for a while and have done tons of testing and new features and all was good until it was time to upload and create the databases. I haven't had this problem since, in my past 20 or whatever projects I've had done since this one. Just a one-off thing, but damn, such a simple skill to learn, like 10 minutes of reading.

Click to expand...

PHP/Web developer - programs sites
SysAdmin - manages server

Deployment is a nice skill to have but being a great coder doesn't make you a sysadmin, just like being a stellar sysadmin doesn't make you a coder. Even more importantly, you can configure linux in 1001 ways. So your coder would have to know exactly how the LAMP environment is setup to be able to deploy properly. Knowing how to setup and optimize a LAMP stack is far from trivial. You can get it done in 15min but to optimize it and get it perfect for your needs you really need to understand every component very well. That's why being a sysadmin is a job in itself. If it were trivial anybody could learn it in a day and nobody would need sysadmins.

It's your choice who you hire but your statements are a stretch. Same way you could say if you don't know a CVS like Git/CVS/SVN you're not a coder, which is not true. At the end of the day you will have to get over yourself and your principles and use everybody for their strnegths not weaknesses. You hire a PHP coder because he's a great PHP coder not because he's good at everything.

I don't consider you a hacker if you can't put your resume on microsoft's homepage.

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I don't consider you a coder if you can't code using machine codes

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-== And so on ==-

The problem is that you expect multiple competencies from a single person.

In serious project you have:

- a programmer - someone who knows a lot about algorithms, computational complexity, logic etc.
- a coder - someone who knows everything about the technology being used to create the project
- a sysadmin - someone who is responsible for the production environment, deployments, tuning and optimisation

If you want great results spend more cash and hire more people with different competencies.

If you want to pay peanuts you'll get monkeys.

macdonjo3 said:

I don't believe you can be considered a scripter if you cannot install your website through SSH linux command line with FTP. If you can't take a digital ocean server and install apache, mysql, and configure the domain with apache, before uploading your built project, I really don't think you can call yourself a scripter. I've hired way too many freelancers in the past who could build a stellar PHP website, but when it came to putting it on the server, they needed a cPanel. We are not building a compiler here, it's not that hard and I don't know how you can skip the fundamentals.What do you guys think about these web-based programmers who can't use basic commands like ssh, ls, cd, cat, vim, etc?

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People who write snippets of code or full blown code are not scripters. Its a way old term. Call them programmers or developers. I would blame the job trends because web developers/programmers are asked for code only. Its the System Admins that do the server work on Linux. Besides server setup is a whole different job in the IT world. If you hire a system admin - he/she cannot code. If you hire a programmer - he/she cannot drush on Linux.Besides what's the whole point of this thread on BHW? Are you looking for an all rounder IT guy who can develop websites, design graphics and manage linux servers?

Can you guys start stating your experience when you throw in an opinion? I can't keep track of how qualified all the member are here.

Before:
- Average PHP developer: Works on Windows box with XAMPP, WAMP, whatever
- Smarter PHP developer: Works on *nix box with a stack that simulates the production environment (which is generally *nix)

Now:
- Average PHP developer: Still works on Windows box with XAMPP, WAMP, whatever
- Smarter PHP developer: Works on any box with Vagrant or better yet Docker

My two cents - six years experience.

EDIT: Personally I'm biased towards Linux because I picked it up back in the days of Slackware, so. But meh, I have no idea
what they teach kids these days.

I don't necessarily think that there needs to be a huge distinction between the two. I've worked with *nix systems for several years now, and can build a LAMP stack in RHEL/Debian systems with my eyes closed. Running "yum" or "wget" isn't really that difficult. The difficult part comes down to whether or not you should be using Apache vs. nginx, or Postgres vs. MySQL. That's when things get tricky.

I just don't think that any programmer who's familiar and can write in PHP would find configuring a stack to be a difficult process. I do agree that it's going to be much faster in some cases, but if people like a GUI to keep things nice and organized, that's fine.

Thought this was relevant: http://www.businessinsider.com/red-hat-ceo-it-is-in-fight-for-its-life-2015-2

I disagree with the OP. A script developer that knows PHP should know that universal language, Linux is a completely different thing to making scripts.

papercut said:

I disagree with the OP. A script developer that knows PHP should know that universal language, Linux is a completely different thing to making scripts.

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I'm not asking for shell or bash scripts! lol...

I'm asking you to be able to deploy your own damn creation. If you don't have the brain power to know the basic functions, you shouldn't be on a entrepreneurial-spirited forum like this but rather the back corners of Stack Overflow.

Maybe I'll open up another thread about programmers that I like:
If you cannot trace the use of memory / transformation of side-effects by your code, you have no right thinking of yourself as a programmer. - Karen Reid