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How much do networks REALLY shave?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by John Dough, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. John Dough

    John Dough Regular Member

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    Ok. So I called one of my AM's and pitched a bitch about something 4 days ago. Since then my sales have tanked. So have my clicks.

    Is it just me, or do they really shave? If so, I'm am a victim at the moment and need to shop some offers.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Realign02

    Realign02 Regular Member

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    It's inevitable, all cpa companies shave. They may come off like the nicest people in the world, but I can guarantee you EVERY single one of them shaves leads.

    It really is sad it's like that, but CPA is a twisted world.
     
  3. therat

    therat Regular Member

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    IME CJ and nba have been real good about the amount they shave but I really try to mix it up
     
  4. jimmid

    jimmid Newbie

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    RealtrustMedia is NO SHAVE what so ever.
    Interesting email me.
     
  5. daymrogersmith

    daymrogersmith Junior Member

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    yeah they do shave. split-test your offers to see which network has the highest conversion rate. if you're bringing in volume go direct with the merchant.
     
  6. dirtbag

    dirtbag Senior Member

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    i've heard around the campfire that directtrack automatically shaves every 5th lead. is there any truth to this, or just more hearsay?
     
  7. daymrogersmith

    daymrogersmith Junior Member

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    apparently it's not possible for directtrack to shave based on the way their software is configured. all shaving is done on the merchant or networks as far as I know.

    if you go to directtrack's website I heard you can test the software yourself by requesting a demo of their software.
     
  8. dirtbag

    dirtbag Senior Member

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    interesting, i may have to check that out some day as i am an affiliate on A LOT of directtrack networks. As I'm sure many here are. I was just curious as it's something I read abouts at one point in time.
     
  9. John Dough

    John Dough Regular Member

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    Ok so let's say they shave. Is it something deep in the algorithms or do you think that the AM can set something up?

    Wait. What am I asking. If I was an AM you bet your ass I would have access to whatever I needed to make the company more cash.

    Shit. I was doing really well with these guys. I guess today is the day to start the search for some alternatives.
     
  10. biffo

    biffo Regular Member

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    I've been shaved on campaigns on the past thats made me a loss, so I justed called up the CPA Network, and basically sent them proofs of paid for legitimate clicks etc & they took a look... aint it strange how suddenly things start coming back into line?

    biffo
     
  11. helaughs

    helaughs Registered Member

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    Direct tracks doesn't have any built in options to shave, it isn't in the affiliate network's interest to shave. The affiliate networks gets paid based on the number of conversions that you get and get to continue making money when you are making money.
     
  12. kerozin24

    kerozin24 Regular Member

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    Unfortunetly they shave a lot!
     
  13. Riposte

    Riposte Junior Member

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    The networks don't shave anything. It's the advertisers themselves that are shaving. They turn off the network pixel on their site so they can still make a profit.

    So if they are losing money, they will turn it off like 20% of the time so they can still make money.
     
  14. blackhataffiliate

    blackhataffiliate Senior Member

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    I do not think Neverblue shaves? They could, but I do not have evidence of it. All clicks from Adwords matches the clicks reported by Neverblue and my conversions have been decent (and consistent).
     
  15. jimbobo2779

    jimbobo2779 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    This is quite a leap to be honest, it is definitely in the networks interest to shave as much as possible, their tracking will show how many leads sent to a company and it will also show how many leads an affiliate has sent them. These two figures do not have to correspond, if they shave a lead from an affiliate they dont necessarily shave it on their records of the leads sent to their customers which is what they get paid for.

    Therefore they could easily be getting paid for sending 50 leads to their customer while only paying you for 30, whilst still taking their cut from it all.

    Don't think for one second that the affiliate network that you are using is any different.
     
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  16. blackhat50

    blackhat50 Regular Member

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    i agree 100% with jimbo on this one
     
  17. magnum_ip

    magnum_ip Newbie

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    I am a very suspicious person when it comes to watching the "middle man" in business as they normally do not add much to the sales process and take a significant portion of the profits. However in the case of affiliate networks I do not believe that the large ones are knowingly "shaving" clicks. I was the affiliate manager for a large retail site from about early 2004 - late 2006. I never saw any evidence that the network was shaving unless they were setting up accounts and paying out to their family and friends. We made sure to contact the affiliate when they signed up and I always reconciled the statements to our records and confirmed receipt of payment to the affiliate. We also used their platform (without telling them or altering the account until a few months later) to track campaigns on adwords and never saw any discrepincy between our records and the aff net's records.

    The main reason I don't believe that its happening in CJ, Linkshare, Ect is because of what they charge. 15k to just get in the door then 35% of affiliate payout for life. They also charged for features like 5$ for each affiliate receiving our feed and other nick nack charges. If they were to shave clicks it would just be an asinine move as they would eventually get caught and lose the business of a buy.com or walmart ect. I just don't think its worth it for them when they already take in enough to insulate their office with $50's.

    I am normally very untrusting of these sort of setups but all my experience with the large networks says that they are legit. I can't say the same for small ones trying to survive though.

    Has anyone had problems with the big boys? I would love to hear.
     
  18. STBNetwork

    STBNetwork Junior Member

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    i had the same problem and i contacted my AM and told him i watched 18 people signup with a webcam and a few hours later my yesterday sales had 8 or 9.