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How important is link velocity?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by directaxcess, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. directaxcess

    directaxcess Power Member

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    Well, after finally moving out of the newbie phase, I realized that just ordering services here on BHW wasn't the magical way to get my websites (or my clients websites) ranked in the search engines. This is mostly because most services deliver links in a certain period of time (say 7 days) over which time they build links. If after that, you don't continue to build links yourself and the trend doesn't continue, your site will drop in rankings again.

    The problem is, a lot of people don't realize that so they just place orders in the BST thinking there's some magical service/solution to getting their websites ranked for competitive keywords in Google. I personally have not had good experiences with the services on here -- I ordered a EDU package from the "GREAT EDU BACKLINK SALE", and these guys delivered it a MONTH late; 4 days after the penguin. They gave me the report 2 days after they started building links (on the 28th links started appearing, on the 30th the report was delivered). I noticed a significant decrease in my traffic on the 28th, and the sad part is, from 24th-27th my traffic went up significantly because my site was all white hat. These guys made some serious garbage links, and it was an IMMEDIATE decrease in rankings (on the same day the first link was built). I even tried building some other high quality completely manual links for diversity (diversifying everything) and nothing happened. I had to junk the domain and start over with a new one -- and I really loved that domain :(.

    Anyways, back to my question about link velocity; say if you're building links manually, diversifying everything (type and anchor text), and building 5-10 links a day (plus tiers), would that be sufficient? Also, what happens when you don't build links one day or for a whole week, doesn't that appear unnatural to Google? So in reality, you basically need to consistently build links to your website(s)? Anyone want to shed some light on the best ways to make link building appear as natural as possible in Google's eyes (since Google says SEO is just on-page and there should be NO off-page at all that you do on your own)?
     
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  2. BKMoney

    BKMoney Newbie

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    There is no exact answer to your question. Some of my sites stay on the top of page one and I haven't build links for them in months. But others lose rankings when I'm not building fresh links....
     
  3. Kimi

    Kimi BANNED BANNED

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    Link velocity matters. If you don't have a steady link growth for at least a couple of months your rankings will not be stable.
     
  4. directaxcess

    directaxcess Power Member

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    Any other members wanna chime in on this a little bit and maybe give a more detailed response?
     
  5. michaelshezzer

    michaelshezzer Junior Member

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    link velocity is really important when ranking a site especially when your blasting links. You have to drip feed these links over time as google will think its not natural. Which is true you dont get 1000 people linking to your site in one day and then never again. So have a look at other peoples link profiles and determind a threshold I remember reading a thread on here about link veocity and the OP of that post designed an alogrithm to work out these thresholds so that when he was blasting he wouldn't trigger the penguin filter . It was really clever I took his idea on the threshold and worked one out myself.
    But link velocity is only one factor in this SEO business!!!

    Hope that helps!
     
  6. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    One of my stock answers. It is really a calculation, but 1/2 way down this post is a list of the things you should take into account
    What the specific answer is? Only Google knows (or - judging frrom how shit their search engine results are these days - maybe not - perhaps their algorithm is now that complex they haven't got a frikking clue what "altering a variable here" or "making an object call there" does any more..Maybe it's bloody Skynet and will get sentience in a few months)

    w w w dot demondemon.com/2012/04/27/what-link-velocity-should-i-use-for-my-website/

    Replace the w w w space dot space with the correct suffix. I get too many links from BHW to be spamming more.

    Scritty
     
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  7. madoctopus

    madoctopus Supreme Member

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    I could write a book about this and would be so technical 1 in 1000 would understand it all. To make it short and very superficial, though...

    - Velocity is not a factor in itself. As all anti-spam factors it is always taken together with other factors to provide a metric.
    - Velocity does not have to be constant. That is nonsense.
    - N0f0llow counts for velocity but does not provide SEO value => when you buy link packets that have many n0f0llow links you increase velocity a lot without getting any advantage, hence screwing yourself up.
    - There are more important spam metrics than velocity and most of the time people end up "acquiring" those together with high velocity in a fatal combination. None of the spam signals will affect you by itself. It is their combination that kills you.
    - Velocity spikes or increase from trusted sites does not affect you. Velocity increase from low-trust/spam-flagged domains is a combination of multiple spam signals and together they form a solid spam signal.
    - Velocity spikes is normal during certain periods for certain niches (seasonal).
    - Also normal if it increases the same time the search volume increases - higher number of visits, higher chances to gain links.
    - Velocity is a problem only because people are stupid and make it a problem. This is not a problem that simply exists it is a problem they make with their own hand. They build shitloads of links for a pathetic effect, when they could build only a few links and rank a lot better. Look at my site - www.imfaction.com - and the links it has. 5 links from 3 domains - as reported by MajesticSEO. In reality it has 1 link from Syndk8 and one link from a chinese forum post that is probably not even indexed. So, just 1 link really. Everything else is n0f0llow comments i posted on a site or two. However, that 1 link from syndk8 is solid. It is from a guest posts (PR3) and domain is very old, PR5 and trusted. So one single link gave me a PR2 and some nice trust and relevance not to mention some eyes from the Syndk8 community. So a question comes to mind. If you can get so much out of so few links why not do that instead of building shitloads of crappy links? Don't get me wrong, crappy links are good for other things (as long as they are DF) but i would not bother building them for main sites. You want to rock in Google, then build "rock star" links.

    - Most people find it hard to build links not because great links are hard to get but because hard links are almost impossible to get WHEN YOU HAVE A SHITTY SITE. Go ahead, try and get a link from a guest post on a solid site when you have a shitty 3-page MNS. I can enumerate tons of ways to get amazing links. I don't mean good links, i don't mean great links, I mean fking amazing, ultimate tier links. But you'd have to put in some time and effort to make it happen. How does a link from a PR7 page on a PR10 domain sound? Awesome? It is easy to get it. It is dumb easy to get it. Is not even a method that's how simple it is. You just have to think a bit out of the box and stop buying in all the bullshit all the "experts" feed you.

    - But hey, let me give you one "method" for free. It is not a secret method. It is a known method, has been discussed before on some SEO blogs. Also it is usually a very expensive method to implement as you will soon discover why. Go and google "php mirrors" - first result - click it. It is a PR7 page on a PR9 domain with trust so high i don't even have to mention. All you need to do to get a link there is to provide a dedicated server in a country that has no mirrors. Technically they say you can be 2nd mirror for a country that has just 1 but in practice they won't accept you if it is a small country. Costly? Yes! Worth it? Depends how much money your site makes.

    - Did I wet your appetite? Ok, one more before I go. Doesn't work anymore because some mofo retard prick who didn't have the cash to do it himself made noise about it and those links were turned into n0f0llow. You know those google servers that they sell - they call them search appliances or google mini. If you bought one, you would have gotten a link to your site from a google.com inner page. How fking cool is that?! Big bad wolf of SEO wonderland giving you a d0f0llow link from his own back yard while on the other side hunting you down for buying and selling links. Well, some moron accused them of selling links while being against selling links, so they had to make them n0f0llow. It was a bit pricey I agree, but hell I would have bought a few myself if I would have known about the trick in time. Happily for me I didn't as now it would be worthless.

    Big Bad Panda (to me it looks more like Pandazilla, that's how big it is)... playing with Red Riding Hood... in the woods... while the Mad Octopus is enjoying being a voyeur (I'm with the camera). That may in fact be BassTrackerBoats cute panda's father... or bigger brother.
    [​IMG]

    That's all folks, thank you for paying attention, now go back and do 50,000 wordpress n0f0llow blast on spammed AA blogs. Oh, btw so you don't accuse me of not liking your method of building 50k links from wordpress... i do it too. Only difference is I use a WordPress exploit to make the links d0f0llow... yeah, I know I'm a fking genious. No, just kidding, I didn't came up with that either. Didn't discovered it, somebody else did. He even shared it (what a noob), happily now you won't find it explained anymore because smart people don't like that stuff public.
     

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  8. MermaidMurder

    MermaidMurder Regular Member

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    The above pic gave me wood


    and I agree with him
     
  9. Marcink99

    Marcink99 Power Member

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    Link valicity matters and will depend on your site niche
    Use href and check top5 sites it will tell you how many links they get a day do the same
     
  10. MrBeastsOnToast

    MrBeastsOnToast Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Wait - leme get this right. You know of an exploit that makes WP blog commenting do follow?
     
  11. madoctopus

    madoctopus Supreme Member

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    yes. will offer such links in a BST i will launch soon on 2nd tier. 2nd tier becuse while now google doesn't have an algo to detect or penalize them it might in the future and dont want to jeopardize money sites of the clients
     
  12. MrBeastsOnToast

    MrBeastsOnToast Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    thats huge man.
     
  13. CandyLand

    CandyLand Regular Member

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    I'm not a site developer, but I don't see how this could be done without hacking the sites and removing the nofollow line from the source code. That, or installing some kind of plugin. Not passing judgment here, just saying...
     
  14. psytrance

    psytrance Power Member

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    Eheh, you just answer your question :)

    But I am not sure...I think link velocity is about building more baclinks than before.

    Anyway, this is what I do:
    I build link building campaigns every day to most of my sites.
    50% of backlinks I just pick them and put them in a .txt file. The rest of them I index after build them.
    From time to time, I just check that list to see what urls are indexed already and remove them from the list.
    When I want to start to be more agressive (link velocity) I just start picking random urls from that list and paste them in SB to index them. This usualy happen in the 4th month of my link building campaign for that particulary site.

    The days of buying a domain and blast it with 50k comments are over. This days there are more and more variables in algos and if you want to survive you need to avoid any type of mistake or footprint.
     
  15. madoctopus

    madoctopus Supreme Member

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    Nope. No hacking involved. I'm not into hacking or any other illegal stuff. It is an exploit and it works.
     
  16. gtree

    gtree Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Its a Organic Link Building Technique, It takes time, but we can get a Long-term Ranking Position on Search Engines.
     
  17. shoaibahmad9999

    shoaibahmad9999 Power Member

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    MAD, I agree 100%.

    Point is, no one knows completely about SEO algorithims but those who actually create it. Else everyone is just speculating.

    I have seen sites that are ranking in top positions and they haven't made a single link for months.
    I have seen sites ranking with a brand new domain having 10k links.
    I have seen sites sandboxed by just creating 2k links.

    So there is no answer but to test and develop a strategy. Sad
     
  18. madoctopus

    madoctopus Supreme Member

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    M.A.D. I'd never trust google. Since 1-1.5 years ago they started to throw massive amounts of disinformation to the market. Even more most SEOs misinterpret what google says. For example EVERYBODY in the SEO industry said Panda (v1 specifically) was a content oriented algorithm that went against bad CONTENT. Google NEVER EVER, not a single time said Panda is an algorithm that analyzes text. They said "low quality pages/sites" they did never explained what low quality pages/sites meant, never said they meant low quality TEXT. Not a single time. Ask any SEO in the industry and they will all say Panda is about content/text.

    Don't believe me?

    Look up in google site:tvace.wordpress.com
    See how many pages indexed? All of them. I used 1 single link. ONE! A d0f0llow comment on a high PR blog IIRC. From that 1 link, all content got indexed.

    Now please read the content. It is 100% unreadable garbage. It is built with a content generator that takes random sentences and mixes them. Absolutely no spinning or method to make the sentences unique was used. Every single sentence in that blog is found somewhere else on the internet. I just took many sentences from many articles related to that topic, extracted the sentences and combined them randomly. This is a technique first time introduced on BHW by user Micallef.

    Now everybody is going to say this could not possibly rank. WRONG! Google "tvace plasma tv guides". #1. If would have any sort of penalty would not rank #1 but much lower. There are only 72 results but that is irrelevant, the blog was never meant to rank for anything and has just 1 link so this is normal. But hey, if you want to make noise that there are just 72 results... be it. Google "perfect Plasma flat-panel HDTV issues guidance" (without quotes). #1 again from almost 8 million results. Ok, that particular keyphrase is probably never searched by anybody but that is in fact irrelevant. It ranks! Even just to be fully indexed from a link is something most people would say is impossible but it even ranks. Want to know something else? If I point links at it it will rank for bigger keywords almost just like a site with hand written content. As a matter of fact, if i build better links to it than the competition i'll outrank their sites with good content.

    I know my shit. Everything you read about SEO is wrong. Very wrong. This is not the first time I'm telling you this. You think google is smart? It is... for a software. I'm an octopus. I have never had a single site penalized by an algorithm. Only time I've been penalized was a manual penalty and it was completely off because the sites were of very good quality. You people do stupid things, you try to game the algorithms but you are blind, you do not understand how they work so you do stuff and hope for the best then an update comes and you get penalized. Then you come here and 1000 "Panda killed my sites" threads pop up.

    M.A.D. and a lot of other people say we can't know how the algorithm works. I DO! Yes, I fking do. I don't know every single detail about it, I don't even know how many algos are there or how many factors they take into account and the fun part is I don't have to. All i need to do is try to solve the same problem Google has - catch the spammers and rank the good sites. I am a programmer so it is a solvable problem for me. Not in a practical way but in a conceptual way. Thing is I don't have to implement it, I just have to figure it out conceptually and then avoid doing what might be a footprint. Is hard to understand for non-programmers but if you have solid background in computer science you probably understand what I mean. But I am even past that stage. At this point I can basically simulate naturalness. It is not natural but it looks so. To a certain degree it looks natural even for a human! I've seen some of the sites most people (especially newbies) build. Basic wordpress blog with some plugins. Many times MFA and MNS. Those are not sites. Those are blogs. Even if you write awesome content by hand for those sites they will look way worse and less professional than mine. Not only that but they will be less helpful than mine. Mine have ultra-spun content. But well done spinning is as good as hand-written content. Won't win a Pulitzer but will pass for a human written article any time.

    To recap...

    You build a crappy site. Looks like a blog and has some hand written content on it. Not many pages - between 1 up to 30 because most of you are lazy or go for the MNS or MFA route. The site is obviously made to earn somebody some money. Most visitors you get realize it and they don't really like your site because of that.

    Then you go and build links. You either do it yourself or buy some crappy SEO service. Ever bought a link building Fiverr gig? FAIL. BIG FAIL. UBER FAIL. That's shit. You bought some link packets that are mostly n0f0llow? Fail again, you just screwed yourself up good. At this stage if your rankings didn't drop consider yourself very lucky. But hey, you don't quite, you keep on going. One more link packet - some advanced intricate scheme on some "high PR private network". There is no such thing as a "private network" first of all because any network can be detected with MajesticSEO and some algorithms. Then there is usually no such thing as a "high PR network" because they are repurposed domains that have dropped. That is not a bad thing in itself. But all links that were towards inner pages have been 301'ed to homepage so homepage gets all PR and deep pages none and that, first of all is a footprint, secondly it reduces PR flow to deep pages. Oh, not to mention most "private networks" have sites that the moment you open them you know they are part of some spam scheme because they don't look like sites but like blogs where you let a schizophrenic loose in the WP admin section to configure the site.

    One more? Ok, be it! Most epic fail ever in the history of the internet:

    You build free blogs (e.g. buypinkshit.wordpress.com) with one single post and link them to your site. Now really, I could implement an algorithm to detect that footprint on a damn pocket calculator. What the fk do you think the chances are for a normal site to have links from 1-page sites? Wait, wait... what are the chances to get links from MANY 1-page sites (because you always build many free blogs)? Wait... what about many 1-page sites, all on subdomains... Wait.... hahah like this? What about many 1-page sites on subdomains, on known free blog platforms, all on the same 30 domains that SENuke and the other tools support. Now seriously, you can't find a bigger footprint than that. That is the fattest footprint ever. In statistics there's something called "confidence". That means how confident you can be that the statistical measure is correct. Now, if Google finds that a link is statistically speaking spam, but it has a very low confidence value, it is unlikely to do something against it. If however you have the situation explained above, both the statistical chance and confidence are high. Hence, you're panda raped (without lubricant).

    You think i do other things for link building than you do? Well... yeah, actually I do, but that's not the point. The point is I also do the same link building techniques you do (scrapebox, AMR, bookmarks, wiki, etc) but i do them a lot different when it comes to certain details. Also I don't focus on these. These are fill-up. Focusing on this kind of links is like being on a hunting ground full with fat game (for non english people, "game" is the term for the animals you kill when hunting) but you focus on eating as much grass as possible. At most you should do a salad not eat grass continuously. Leave the grass for the goats.

    Anyways, I hope this gives you some insight and helps you. If you found this useful do go ahead and find my other good threads and posts, especially those about advanced wordpress seo optimization, building a link network of sites (including the 2nd part with PHP code) and the thread of user 'seo20' where i posted too (it's a great thread from start to end about content uniqueness, NLP, n-grams, synonyms, etc), plus the threads from user 'phpbuilt' (he has a "best of phpbuilt" thread with the list).

    See you on #1
     
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  19. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    Sites have ranked with nofollow alone.
    nofollow has great SEO advantage it just has zero PR advantage
    Too many of ANY type of links is a no-no
    Where people go wrong with nofollow is those massive WIKI blasts that are 98% nofollow. But it would be almost as bad if they were 98% follow. Both give an unrealistic link profile long term

    Rest of it I agree with. (and understand perfectly - I think 1 in 1000 is "bigging yourself up" a bit..1 in 50 maybe)
    And 1 page sites as a first tier are my pet hate - along with people who don't deep link their own good internal content.

    Nice post though. Thanks and rep given

    Scritty
     
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  20. madoctopus

    madoctopus Supreme Member

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    Thank you. Trust me 1 in 1000 is not bigging myself up. Obviously people would understand something of what i'd explain but it would not be what I explained not all of what i explained. Unless you have a background very very similar to mine it is very difficult just like for me a person doing AI and neural networks and stuff like that for SEO would not be very clear for me.

    About n0f0llow - it is my belief and i did tests. What i think happens is people blast lists which had some d0f0llow links in there. If you tell me you did a test 100% with nf links and it resulted that nf works, i'll redo mine to test again but i don't see any serious indicators towards that. Also i have outranked 4 sites with tens of thousands of nf links with just 4 mediocre (at best) links for an easy keyword.

    There are a very very specific type of nf links which i've noticed might (uncertain though) have a bit of better effect but that's it.

    Thanks for rep and im glad you found the post to be nice.

     
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