hillsborough tragedy

I remember this happening and being a bit awed a wee bit shocked and then got on with life. not long after that I watched my last football game ever. as a young boy stood in a cage with the memories of that day fresh, I hated it.

last night I watched the documentary on the tellygog. it was far more upsetting this time than it was back in the day. absolutely horrific. I never really understood why my Liverpool supporting friends have been campaigning for justice for the 95, and I had heard it so much that it became white noise in the background.

I highly recommend watching this documentary, it highlights, police corruption (not the bobby on the ground who god knows went through the same hell as every body else) but the commander who was out of his depth. a dodgy coroner who was happy to push the official story (even publishing the blood alcohol count of child victims, sick fuck, blaming the deceased for being crushed to death) even how happy thatcher's government was to go along with the story and blame the fans.

I feel for the families, as a dad now, I would have ripped the head off dead things to be with my kids, they were treated abominably.

did anyone else watch it? (I couldn't watch the end of it I was sickened)

I was quite young at the time so couldn't really comprehend what was going on.

The way the families were treated was pretty par for the course when you think of what was being done to working class people and minorities during the time. The BBC comedy drama's Life on Mars pretty much hits the nail on the head when it comes to the attitudes of the time.

It came from Thatcher and trickled down all the way until PC's on the beat thought they were better than the people they represented.

As far as the Police and wider population thought, Liverpool was a cess pit of benefit claiming, working class scum so they gave them that style of treatment. Similar things happened to the miners and to people like Stephen Lawrence much later on (And of course for a slightly different reason, but same kinda issue - at the end of the day Stephen was different = Bad).

Thank f%&k we live in 2016!

It is actually 96. However, and do not take this the wrong way, or try to twist my words. What happened to the Justice for 39? Heysel.

mickyfu said:

It is actually 96. However, and do not take this the wrong way, or try to twist my words. What happened to the Justice for 39? Heysel.

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no you are absolutely right mate Heysel was another tragedy, (I had to google it to remind myself because I was under 10 when that happened) I bet there was similar goings on behind the scenes.

I think Callmereaz makes a good point I do think in 80's Britain the average supporter (the average person) was considered to be plebs. you only have to look at the stitch ups that happened during the various strikes and how people were treated. none of it should have happened the supporters cages were awful and when things did kick off for whatever reason there was no where to go.

and my mistake on the 96 apologies.

edited: sorry micky im slow today I see the point you are making on Heysel and its causes and I agree.

mickyfu said:

What happened to the Justice for 39? Heysel.

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This is a really good question!

England has always been a "fighting" type of nation and football was one of those working class pursuits that always caused major ructions! Anyone remember Euro 96, not to mention what always happened when a team like Cardiff City, Millwall, Arsenal or lesser ones like Birmingham City or Stoke drew each other in the cup!

It's one of the reasons many European clubs wanted to ban English supporters coming over during the 1980's / 90's.

So you can argue quite easily (Just like many stereotypes to be honest) that working class men deserved exactly what they got at Hillsborough for being so unruly.

The problem with this is you always have haters (Just like with racists / homophobes etc etc) who'll take the initial problem (A few men get a bit drunk and fighting) and then broaden the issue to includes all manner of things. (Working class men are lazy, degenerates, poor, uneducated etc etc)

For fear of invoking Godwins Law we all know what begins to happen when you stop looking at "humans" and then lump everyone in one particular group into a neat stereotype - it all ends in tears normally which is exactly what happened at Hillsborough!

It's a really tricky one to be honest and like so many things to do with class, background, race, ethnicity, sexuality or indeed anything you can use to categorise or stereotype a group of people - it's often hard to acknowledge wrong doing for fear of being outcast.

I'm not sure what the answer is long term. I don't think society is adult enough to look at a group of people, acknowledge any problems without either labelling them all as degenerate scum or the modern day alternative, creating a outcast label (Racist, Homophobe etc etc) to place on anyone who dares question any issues and offer solutions.

I'm glad the families of the 96 found some comfort in the end though. And football is a much cleaner / safer game both on and off the pitch these days. Watching the pretty awesome way the crowd reacted to Fabrice Muamba being treated pitch side a few years ago tells you all you need to know about that!

C'est la vie I guess!